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i have noticed a few guys that are interested in stoking a 351 cleveland. i just wanted to shed some light on the subject. first its not that expensive after a talk with hank the crank he has a kit that runs about 2200 bucks. thats all the stuff you need besides a gasket kits and machine work i can email you the complete list if you want. hank the crank is the man, he has been racing clevelands since the beginning and is major player in the pantera world. the statement that stokers are harder on the sidewalls is true but since all that pressure is put on the sidewalls only when the engine is at very high rpm this is were a stroker is king. the same hp is made at about 1500 to 2000 rpm less. out cars are heavy and low rpm torque helps us more than hp. so if you have a built 351 4v at the peak hp is at 7500 rpm cause you all know you have to spin that baby high to get power out of 4v heads. you get more hp even more torque at 5500 with a 408.

continued
matt eddins (fool injected)
 

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408 stroker continued

a talk with hank the crank will assure you. im currently building one and will fill you guys in when its done. and when you use a long rod vs the stock cleveland rod you take even more pressure of the sidewalls and even more torque. so you see a stoker can be even better for that 4 bolt boss 351 block sitting in your garage than a stock rebuild. reward your couriosity and call hank his web page is www.hankthecrank.com or email me for the list at [email protected] ps this is a bad ass kit top of the link steel crank h beam rods and cp custom forged pistons and they use a small chevy size rod journal so very little block clearancing is needed
for the extreme hank will put a 443 cubic cleveland together for you


sorry i cant type for crap but im a grease monkey not a jornalist


matt eddins (fool injected)
 

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Not that expensive??? You can do a windsor cheaper and have a taller deck to boot. mm
 

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Stroker Clevelands

The following are the personal opinions of Cougrrcj, and must be treated accordingly. I feel that with my 25+ years of Cleveland engine building experience count for something!

Mcyclonegt,
As even you acknowleged, the Clevelands have a weakness. They just can't be bored very much because of the extremely thin cylinder walls and core shift problems in the casting. Sometimes even an .030 overbore will run into water jacket porosity. All Clevelands should be sonic tested for cylinder wall thickness before attempting an overbore! That's not just my opinion, but the warning given in most Ford engine books!

With cylinder walls that thin, especially after an overbore, I will not take my Clevelands to anything over 6200rpm. Actually, 6000 is my shift point, but the added 200 is my ultimate limit. My buddy blew up waaaay too many Clevelands, big time, because of this issue. I'd kinda like to retain my numbers-matching four bolt CJ block, thankyouverymuch! Besides, any Cleveland block is getting hard to find these days!

To run the stroker in the Cleveland, even with offset grinding the crank to the smaller Chevy-sized journals, you still have to either run a shorter rod or put the piston pin up so high you'll make it unstable in the bore or both. Not my idea of a fun street/strip engine! I could go into a dynamic load analysis if you give me the specs of his stroker kit. I still would wager that the stroker puts more side load on the wall at 5500 than the stock motor does at 6200.

The increased side loads that the stroker would put on the thin cylinder walls is just not worth it to me.

Well, that's my opinion, take it for what its worth...
 

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408

nope this is not an ad i just have dealt with the man alot and respect his work and i do appreciate anybodies opinion. and anybody that has dont any research on the history of 351 clevelands should have run across hanks name once or twice he now mainly make cranks for fords nascar engines and yes ive seen clevelands blow for no reason and i have a good freind that runs in the low 12s in a full bodied 3900 pound 70 torino and his motor sees 7000 alot and his motor has not been torn down in 5 or so years. and here in texas i get complete clevelands all day long for 50 to 100 bucks there easy to find here in the country:p:

matt
 

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408

my car came with a cleveland im damn sure not gona put a windsor in it but if i came with a windsor i damn sure would not put a cleveland in it dear to be different i thought thats what the whole mercury movement was about

ps this post was a ps

matt
 

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I've never even heard of stroking a cleveland.
 

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Seriously, If you wanted a 351 stroker, wouldn't it be cheaper to build up a 400M. If I remember, they are basically the same but I'm not real sure since I'm a small block or FE block kind of person.
 

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351C vs 400M

First of all, the 351C is a smaller package. The 400M is a tall block. The crank to deck height was raised by over an inch. That means that the 400 is taller, wider and heavier. Heck, it is virtually the same size as a 429/460! If you're going with that size engine package, you might as well go with a 460!

Also, the 351C uses a small block transmission bolt pattern. The 351M/400 use the same bolt pattern as the 429/460. Most of the tall block trannies have reinforcing ribs that might interfere with your car's trans tunnel/firewall juncture.

Also, the 351M/400 uses a larger main bearing size. Coincidentally, the same size as the 429/460.
 

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cool, I did not know that. So is the 351M the same block as the 400M?
 

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Yes, 351M and 400 use the same block. Block, heads, intakes, connecting rods, pushrods... The only things that are different are the crank and pistons. Crank because of the increased stroke of the 400 (4.00 in stroke on the 400, 3.50 inch stroke for the 351M) and the pistons have to be different because of the wrist pin height.

For all intents and purposes, the 351M/400 and 429/460 are the same size. They have the same block height as measured from the crank centerline at 10.3", give or take a few thousandths of an inch. Abut the only real difference is the 351M-400 is shorter measured front to back. All of an inch and a half. This is because the 429/460 has a bigger bore and the bore spacing is bigger as a result.

Anyway, all 351M/400s were 2-barrel engines. Since it was never considered a performance engine, there are very few aftermarket speed parts for them. Very limited intake manifold selection. Oh, you can get aftermarket four-barrel intakes for them, and since they are in the same engine family, they will take the same camshafts as a short-decked Cleveland, but that's about it. But if you put the large port 4-barrel Cleveland heads on a 351M/400 I don't think there are any intake manifolds that will match up. Like I said, just not a performance engine.

If you want a stroker Cleveland, you're just better off going with a 429/460-based engine instead. Then you're getting over 100 cubes without going the custom route. Just my two cents.
 

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I have never had a cleveland car or a vehicle with a 400m but I would think that even on stock form a 400m would produce good torque. I have to wonder.. if you would put a mild cleveland cam into a 400 and a dual plain intake with a 600cfm 4 barrel and headers how well would it run. After all you have 10 cubes more than a 390. Of course the next question is will it fit? Cleveland headers? AOD trans... would you need a hood scoop like a 429/460 does? Might be an interesting combo.
John
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Well I'll be darned, I actually found references to Hank the Crank in a magazine article I was reading. I think it was Mustang Monthly or Car Craft. Anyway, apparantly he's pretty reputible and makes high quality (read: EXPENSIVE) stuff. Anyway, I am becoming more and more interested in The cleveland engine. I may try to get like a 70 mustang one of these days with that engin to resto-mod and give it the mach 1 treatment. Seems like the Clevelands have a lot of potential and they aren't that well known. Where does it fall anyway? It's not your traditional "small or Big block". Would that make it like a "mid block"?

CrazyCat said:
Who the hell is hank the crank? This looks like an ad to me.
 

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Hank the Crank! Damn! He goes way back. I was reading an article about his work in a 70s issue magazine. (I never toss a magazine out, My wife thinks Im a pack-rat)
 

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If you have the book, Ford Performance, you will see his name in the Cleveland section. He's a big fan of the Cleveland, and has built some pretty stout Clevelands in the old days. He also has done some oiling mods on the block to improve the oiling, (page 110-112). He also has a chrome-moly steel billet crank for the Clev. and sells for 1400. (on page 113), guy knows his 351C.
 

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Cleveland Questions

Now that I am interested in Clevelands, I am curious. If I were to go hunting for a core, is there any block I should look for in particular that is stronger. For example, were they all 4 bolt mains? Were there any differences in the 2v and 4v block? I seriously want to build one of these. It really appeals to me for some reason. Of course I need to finish my 68 first, but if Clevelands are indeed getting harder to find I may jump on one if a good deal presents itself. I'd like to put it in something that would be heavily resto-modded. I was thinking of giving a regular 70 mustang the mach 1 treatment or a 69 cougar or something. Of course this is so far down the road...Then again, my wife's Escort is on it's last legs (figure the odds) and she will need a car when we get back stateside. Anything with 4 doors that one of these would drop in to...
 

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Kirk, pick up the Ford Performance book by Pat Ganahl. It has alot of very interesting Cleveland info, from the rare Auzzie block, to bulding it up to a street terror.
The 2nd best is the 4 bolt block, but any 2 bolt block is strong enough to build up, and even add 4 bolt mains too, but not neceselery. You will need to make sure the block you pick up is checked out real good for core shift. A standard block is best, any block that has been bored should be passed on. (Just my opinion)
A good set of 2V heads, or Auzzie heads for an auto, or 4V for 4 speed, a good dual pattern cam, nice headers, and a 750 Holley/Edelbrock, will toast almost anything on the road. Especially in an Escort,lol.
 
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