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Discussion Starter #1
First, thanks MrEos for the advice on removing the oil pan from my 69 351W. All it took was removing the cross member (2 bolts) and dropping the steering linkage (another 2 bolts).

Now for the issue. Good news, everything in the engine looks good. No scoring in the cylinders that I could see, everything looks to be complete and in the right place, and the junk in the bottom of the pan could not be picked up with a magnet. Bad news, there was a lot of junk. Some I could identify as small pieces of the original cork gasket, but I need HELP figuring out what the #[email protected]* the rest of this crap is!

The black cylinder in this pic is soft rubber. The metal piece looks like there was a sleeve of some kind, or maybe threads, originally in the round hole (could it be from the drain plug? The drain plug whole is damaged, so whoever had this car before put in a toggle-bolt type of drain plug - no threads).



The little pieces in this pic appear to be a dark brown translucent plastic, kind of like the old Bakelight plastic. I could tell from the radiused shape of the larger pieces that they probably formed some kind of a ring, with many smaller holes around the outside. The size is my guess.



The pile on the left is of some kind of non-magnetic metal (tin? aluminum?). Could they be the stripped threads from the drain plug? The black hard (Bakelight) plastic on the right looks like it was a solid piece, but I can't tell what shape that plastic was originally, only that it was shattered into many tiny pieces.




So I have three questions for you engine experts:

1. What is all of this, what damage could it have done,and what do I need to do to replace it?

2. Now that I have the pan off, is there anything else I should do or replace? Should I replace the oil pump, pickup, or anything else as a precaution?

3. I am getting a new stock style pan. What is the best gasket and sealant to use?

Thanks in advance for any and all answers and suggestions.

Jeff
 

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it never amazes me what can be in the bottom of an oil pan. lots of stuff manages to fall in open oil fill holes and such over the years by careless people. alot of it can be crushed w/o harm, some (like a socket in a crown vic police interceptor motor a few years ago that i personally know of) can cause an engine to lose its effeciency real quick.
 

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I think it's the timing chain gear in the second pic. The small metal piece is from the drain plug, it was spot welded to the pan. Mike
 

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Looks like the nylon teeth coatings from your timing gear. they were meant to keep the chain quiet, but they don't last. You probably should consider getting a new timing gear set at some point. Not sure what the other junk is -- probably PO stuff..?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Looks like the nylon teeth coatings from your timing gear. they were meant to keep the chain quiet, but they don't last. You probably should consider getting a new timing gear set at some point. Not sure what the other junk is -- probably PO stuff..?
I did notice that one side of the timing gear is tight while the other side has a little slack. Is this normal?

Thanks guys for the speedy replies!

Jeff
 

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I think the above post ID the stuff. Usually that kind of stuff will stay in the bottom of the oil pan and not cause damage. The worst that it could have done is plug the pick up screen to the oil pump and start starving the engine of oil and drop oil pressure. Make sure and clean the pick up tube screen before putting it back together.
That's better then what I found in the oil pan of an engine I was running on dyno test a couple weeks ago. Had one piston let go running a very aggressive test cycle..
 

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Yes some slack is normal. To much slack indicates your timming chain is stretched and worn.
 

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The stuff you found in the bottom of the oil pan is probably from an old timing chain and has been replaced since. It would be good though to double check the timing gear and chain again to make sure yours has all it's teeth.
 

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i dont know about a cleavland but a fe chain can be touched by removing the fuel pump--also rotating the crand right and left with a socket and breakerbar
doctordesoto
 

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OUCH Brian! What motor was that?
 

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It's not necessary for a stock engine, but if you're anticipating any performance upgrades, this would be an excellent time to add a windage tray.
 

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Jeff if it were mine, I would change the oil pump, it would be an easy task to do at this point , the old oil pump may last the life of the motor or it could go out right after you tighten up that new pan. You just don't know. I use Right Stuff or 3M Yellow for gasket seal. 3M yellow is a bit harder to clean up if you have to do it over but both work well. Sal
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Jeff if it were mine, I would change the oil pump, it would be an easy task to do at this point , the old oil pump may last the life of the motor or it could go out right after you tighten up that new pan. You just don't know. I use Right Stuff or 3M Yellow for gasket seal. 3M yellow is a bit harder to clean up if you have to do it over but both work well. Sal
Thanks for the advice Sal - and everyone who replied! I feel quite a bit better now about the junk in the pan. It's always good to find nothing, but my junk is evidently not a big deal.

I don't want to spend more than I have to, but replacing the old oil pump now will be a lot cheaper than changing it later. Probably a good precautionary measure.

Jeff
 

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Thanks for the advice Sal - and everyone who replied! I feel quite a bit better now about the junk in the pan. It's always good to find nothing, but my junk is evidently not a big deal.

I don't want to spend more than I have to, but replacing the old oil pump now will be a lot cheaper than changing it later. Probably a good precautionary measure.

Jeff
Also, wise insurance to go to a hardened oil pump drive shaft.
 

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The valve stem seals will harden with age and break off. I had a 302 and the oil pump sucked in a piece through the round hole in the middle of the screen. The pump locked up and broke the oil pump shaft. Before I installed a new oil pump I pulled the valve covers and replaced the valve stem seals. No problems since the repair. Although it was a time consuming repair.
 

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The pile on the left is of some kind of non-magnetic metal (tin? aluminum?). Could they be the stripped threads from the drain plug? The black hard (Bakelight) plastic on the right looks like it was a solid piece, but I can't tell what shape that plastic was originally, only that it was shattered into many tiny pieces.



Jeff
The pile on the right is definitely the remains of the nylon ring cap on the timing gear teeth. The pile on the left is the aluminum shavings from the aluminum timing gear itself. With the nylon teeth gone, the chain starts to wear down the teeth of the aluminum timing gear. The chain will also have more slack than it's supposed to have now that the nylon teeth caps are gone. If the timing gear and chain haven't already been replaced with a steel gear, I'd replace it now. The teeth on my original aluminum timing gear wore down paper thin and the chain jumped a tooth leaving me stranded. It didn't jump enough teeth to cause any valve to piston clashes though.

My '68 now has a 5.0L motor that came with steel timing and crank gears with two rows of teeth and a double roller timing chain. I don't notice any timing gear noise without the nylon caps on the teeth. Maybe the double roller timing chain is quieter than the stock '68 chain.
 
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