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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Sorry about the spelling, ment for topic to have read " was Ford conservative about J code HP rating ". This is the small block info from page 48 of my 1968 owners manual..
289 2 v, 8.7 compression ratio rated @ 195 HP @ 4600 RPM's
302 2 v, 9.0 compression ratio rated 210 HP @ 4600 RPM's
302 4 v, 10.0 compression ratio rated 230 HP @ 4800 RPM's..
Doesnt it make sense that if you raise the compression on the J code motor to 10-1, then throw on a 4 v carb you should get more then 20 more ponies over the 302 2v engine ?
The 302 2v is rated 15 ponies more then then the 289 & thats a minor increase in compression & a 2 v carb also:bs: .. I dont get it.. ??
 

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Back in the day when I was young and good looking, my buddy had a 68 J code Mustang fastback that was bone stock and that sucker was way way fast. It put my F code Cougar to shame!
 

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We had a J-code Montego MX and it was pretty quick.....
 

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I have some now, I had some them. As stock, they're a snooze. It's not hard to improve on them. Ditch the heads unless you have a trailer queen. Strap on Hipo exhausts and aluminum heads with modern ignition.
 

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But if you ditch the heads it's the same as an F code. Did the 2V have different pistons or anything else? I don't think so. If you toss the closed chamber heads you don't really have much of a J-code, per se. Just a built 302.

Nothing wrong with a built 302, but I have J code and I'd like to think there's some hope with the right tuning.
 

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Scali62 said:
302 2 v, 9.0 compression ratio rated 210 HP @ 4600 RPM's
302 4 v, 10.0 compression ratio rated 230 HP @ 4800 RPM's..
Doesnt it make sense that if you raise the compression on the J code motor to 10-1, then throw on a 4 v carb you should get more then 20 more ponies over the 302 2v engine ?
You've got a point there, for my year '70 there's a 50 hp difference between the 2V and 4V 351 with a 1.5 difference in compression:

351-2V 9.5:1 250hp @ 4,600 and 355 lb-ft @ 2,600
351-4V 11.0:1 300hp @ 5,400 and 380 lb-ft @ 3,400

So you would think you'd get more than just an extra 20 hp on your 302?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I bought my restored J code car 4 weeks ago, the guy I bought it off didnt build it so the info on what was done during the rebuild is not clear, he said he thinks the cam was upgraded & he was told it makes 300 HP to the rear wheels.
Car has headers, flowmasters, mallory ignition, 600 Holley, Edelbrock manifold.
It feels to this 43 year old who's had a few hot rods in his day it's 300 HP, sure feels like it.
She barks through second gear without shifting it & from a dead stop in first gear she leaves 40 ' of rubber , he he { had to do it once }.. with a 3.00 rear
I dont think I would ditch the heads though, but not sure..
Car feels like it could be in the high 14's in all realty..
 

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Given that the exhaust, cam and ignition were the same between F codes and J codes, it's not surprising that the HP gain was minimal.
 

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jshcobra said:
Given that the exhaust, cam and ignition were the same between F codes and J codes, it's not surprising that the HP gain was minimal.
Isn't the exhaust different (single v. dual)?
 

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If my memory is correct:

J-Code = Flat Top Pistons with Valve Relief Eyebrows
F-Code = Dished Pistons
 

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Discussion Starter #11
just checked it out

F code single exhaust
J code dual exhaust { I knew that one because i own a J code :licka: }

I do think it all adds up to Ford being conservative with the 230 HP J code rating ,
& I think I may know why.
The next " better " engine Ford offered was the 390 Marauder 2v which is rated @ 280 HP @ 10.5 - 1 compression...
I wonder if they figured that no one would pay the extra bucks for the 280 HP big block if the cheaper J code has more or close to the same ponies. :eek:
Also I believe this was the first year HI PO 302 , maybe that added to the equation for insurance reasons or whatever...
 

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I should have been more specific. I meant same manifolds. BTW, my J-code has duals with an H-pipe. Was that the factory setup?
 

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We've had three '68 Cougars, 2 F-Codes and a J-Code. One F-Code was purchased new by my father-in-law in 1967, and the other two were in totally stock condition before I got my hands on them. All three have had the same exhaust system: the same manifolds and dual exhaust with the H-pipe. I've never seen a '68 that did NOT have dual exhaust. Such a thing may exist, but I've never seen one. The original dealer's invoices do not list dual exhaust in the options. All three cars were made in San Jose. For that matter, I've never seen a C-Code '68 that did not have this same exhaust setup.
 

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Elusive One-Tailed Cat

Scali62 said:
but my source is the classic cougar network & it lists the F code 2 v 302 as a single exhaust.
I've been into cougars 3 weeks now, LOL, so i'm far from sure..
I'll try to link the page with the specs..http://www.theclassiccougarnetwork.com/tccn/framex.html

Go to Encata { @ the bottom of page } then " drivetrains " then 1968
You're right, that's what it says. Nevertheless, I've never seen one. Does anybody have one? I'm willing to be convinced, but I'm from Missouri (or at least I lived there for a year a long time ago): lift that cat's tail and SHOW ME!
 

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Ford hp in the 60's

Ford understated HP in the 60's alot on diffrent cars mostly 2d sport types. The reason was for insurance. back then the higher the horse power the higher the rates in a lot of states. Mostly was done with the mustang but a few others where done that way too. The high performance ones where really lowerd Like the 68 Shelby GT500KR by my understanding the published hp was less than 400 but in reality a dyno run showed close to 500. The 289 hipo for 66 and 67 showed some where around 250 to 280 hp. I saw an origanal get dynoed at 297hp. the only way to find the real numbers is to have it dynoed yourself. Also remember that no two motors are exactly the same. one may have 260 from the factory and another coukld have 265 or 275. they put out what they said was the average. That happens even to todays cars.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Makes sense Slim ..
My oldest brother bought a new 1976 XLCH sportster that was a freak as far as fast goes.
The bike was sold/passed on to a couple guys from the neighborhood & was tagged as a freaky fast stock bike..
Not that we stayed sportster fans, was a fun first bike but I agree some vehicles from the factory can be maybe 10 % faster then others..
Oh & good point about it being common practice to under rate muscle car HP ratings back then for insurance reasons, good post my man !
 

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Not quite

slim chance said:
The high performance ones where really lowerd Like the 68 Shelby GT500KR by my understanding the published hp was less than 400 but in reality a dyno run showed close to 500.
The 68 gt500KR got the same 428 CJ that came in any other R code (or Q code without the ram air) ford product in 1968, 1969 and 1970, including non shelby stangs, cougars, torino's etc etc. The engine was rated by ford at 335hp. It was higher than that, but certainly not over 400hp. The 68 GTE 427's were rated at a more realistic 390hp. If you ask anyone who has driven or owned both motors they will tell you that all things being equal the two motors are very close in power, with the 427 being the winner if someone had to pick. Anyone who tells you that a factory CJ motor put out anything near 500hp, they are talking smack. The most powerful engine in any ford car ever built is the R code 427. It was rated at a realistic 425 hp.

The solid lifter K code 289 motor was a very hot ticket. Bear in mind that a motor can also dyno on one machine at 300 and another at 270. Dyno's are not all that accurate fom one to another, but they are a great bench mark for making improvements on a given dyno to asess increases. Most people talk **** about dyno numbers. My mildly worked 351 windsor barely broke 250 rear wheel HP on a chassis dyno. I am hoping that my 416ci dual quad motor will make 325 at the wheels. Don't believe everything you read.

Also, I am not certain, but I am pretty sure that all small block 2V cougars through 1970 came with single exhaust from the factory. I am certain of 69, 70. In fact, I have ever seen an unrestored 2V small block cougar with dual exhaust. I guess the XR7 G's would have had to have duals for the cut outs, but I have never seen a two barrel G car. All 69-70 2V cars came with single exhaust, the duals were part of the M,S,G,Q or R code upgrade.
 

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The 230 hp J code 302 came with single exhaust. Dual exhaust was optional on any of the 302's unless they were in an XR7-G. All XR7-G's came with dual exhaust.

I don't think the 230HP rating was either exaggerated or understated. It was actually pretty close to the truth.

It is a good running engine because the heads have a very small combustion chamber. The main problem today is that the compression is a bit high for pump gas premium. A replacement set of pistons with a slight dish is a good idea during a rebuild to lower compression a point or so.
 

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Paul Garvin said:
The 68 gt500KR got the same 428 CJ that came in any other R code (or Q code without the ram air) ford product in 1968, 1969 and 1970, including non shelby stangs, cougars, torino's etc etc. The engine was rated by ford at 335hp. It was higher than that, but certainly not over 400hp. The 68 GTE 427's were rated at a more realistic 390hp. If you ask anyone who has driven or owned both motors they will tell you that all things being equal the two motors are very close in power, with the 427 being the winner if someone had to pick. Anyone who tells you that a factory CJ motor put out anything near 500hp, they are talking smack. The most powerful engine in any ford car ever built is the R code 427. It was rated at a realistic 425 hp.

The solid lifter K code 289 motor was a very hot ticket. Bear in mind that a motor can also dyno on one machine at 300 and another at 270. Dyno's are not all that accurate fom one to another, but they are a great bench mark for making improvements on a given dyno to asess increases. Most people talk **** about dyno numbers. My mildly worked 351 windsor barely broke 250 rear wheel HP on a chassis dyno. I am hoping that my 416ci dual quad motor will make 325 at the wheels. Don't believe everything you read.

Also, I am not certain, but I am pretty sure that all small block 2V cougars through 1970 came with single exhaust from the factory. I am certain of 69, 70. In fact, I have ever seen an unrestored 2V small block cougar with dual exhaust. I guess the XR7 G's would have had to have duals for the cut outs, but I have never seen a two barrel G car. All 69-70 2V cars came with single exhaust, the duals were part of the M,S,G,Q or R code upgrade.
I got the information about the 68 shelby GT500KR out of a shelby history book i read a few years ago and the late 68 ones (aka 68 and a half yes there was a half year in 68 for mustangs for those that didnt know) had a more powerful version of the 428cj known as the 428scj super cobra jet and that book is where the aprox horse power ratings came from also they did motor dyno on those cars not chassis back then. Ive done a lot of research on the 60's mustang i use to live eat sleep and breath mustang. then i got a cougar
 
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