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Discussion Starter #1
no not that... but with the empending Cleveland buildup that will one day come to me... and all this talk about building a stroker motor on the other thread it got me to thinking. is there any economical way to build a Cleveland stroker?? would a crank out of a 400 work by chance?? id like to not buy an expensive aftermarket crank but i do expect to get some work done to the engine. a stroker would be cool as id just slap a bunch of 351 stickers on the whole thing ( or Boss 302 ones to freak people lol ) i have 4bbl closed chamber heads so id think theyd be put to good use with the gigantor ports on them. any thoughts??? critisisms?? quips?? one liners?? mostly advice needed here though but ill take what i can get....
 

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Stroker

Ken Hassing of Steet and Strip in Kalamzoo, MI does a 377 C.I. stroker using the Cleveland block. I think he offset grinds the stock crank to 3.75 in. and uses Chevy style rods.

He does real nice work with Ford engines.

I don't have his adress or phone # handy, so if you need more info, let me know.
 

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More displacement should make the heads work better. I think 377 to 392 would be all I'd go with a cleveland block.
 

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Steve the 400 crank has much bigger main and rod journals along with bigger heavier counterweights so its not a good option as the machine work involved would be very cost prohibitive compared to buying a new crank.

400 cranks were used in the past to stroke windsors before the advent of $500 aftermarket stroker cranks. At least the windsor and 400 shared the same journal dia.

While your at it the cleavland block is not your best bet for a stroker with its shorter deck height and thin wall cyl bores.

You would be better off stroking a windsor block and using your 4v Cleavland heads if you must.

I dont remember the journal dia of the cleavland cranks but going to a 3.75 stroke would be a .250 grind and would have to be in small journal chevy rod sizes. It also comes out to 380 cubes with a .030 overbore.

I had a 377 windsor once that used a 3.7 stroke. It was a offset grind of the 2.3 journal down to 2.1 which is the standard chevy "large" journal size. Used 6" chevy rods and had to bore the pistons pin holes from .912 to the Chevy .921 for it to work.

Today all that messing around is not nesassary when you can buy a 393 crank for $500 and use the stock size windsor rod and a stock 302 piston.

Even most the Cleavland fans will agree this is a better way to go on the cheap. The only drawback for useing the Cleavland heads is you would need a piston with the Cleavland dome or valve relifes. Like a Boss 302 piston. mm
 

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Discussion Starter #5
dammit Mark... now you are making me question the Cleveland and making me think of buying a 69 and building the Windsor that would be in it..... ayy... at least im more familiar with it... will kinda suck to sell all my Cleveland stuff though...
 

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Steve, I'm not trying to talk you out of anything! Just leave the C a 351 if you want.
 

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well see... would be easier to leave it a W ..... thats crossed my mind alot. seeing as the 69s were all W as far as 351s go. well see.... i already have a stockpile of Cleveland parts anyway. just need a damn shortblock... grr
 

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Steve, You need to take a road trip and see me. I have four. and 1 compleet running Cleveland.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
you gome here with a trailor and ill get you a 67 Mustang shell for free..... he he
 

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Was there any Clevelands in the 69 cougars. All The parts stores say that, but my chiltons manual says that there was 2v celevands in 69. But the same chiltons also says the FMX is made of aluminum.
 

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Chilton's has never had drug testing in their employment policy. I for one think they should look into it. Their manuals are only good for lighting fires and not very good for that either.

The 351C was not offered in anything until the 1970 model year. Do yourself a favor, toss the Chilton's book and get the Fomoco factory manual.

By the way, it appears that some Chilton's tech writers were unable to complete the Chilton's detoxification course and formed another service manual company called Haynes.
 

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Steve, I got an idea, since some of the Cleavland fans seem to think that the 4V heads you have are the greatest ever made they had ought to be worth at least as much as a new aftermarket set of windsor heads.

See if anyone of them would pay you that much for them!! :D mm
 

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Discussion Starter #14
LOL.... hmmmmmm :D
 

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steve you can also take that windsor and stroke it up to 427 cui but it tends to burn oil. a 398 stroker doesnt burn the oil and is almost as healthy and its a whole lot of thunder in a light package and cheap as well. course if you like to spend money as we all do cause we are all so rich right. you could always go to genesis and get a 427 block and dove for the rest of your parts and just build a good old fashion fe "kills everything on the road, runs down rat and eatsem, mustang whinney in fear, and make cudas swim to deep water' Cougar.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
i do like the idea of a stroker.. im still debating though... would be nice to have a that 398 Stroker and slap 302 emblems on it lol.... people always seem to think my 351 is a 302 anyway so why not?? lol
 

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de-stroker

When I had the big block Chevy engine in my Camaro, everyone ass-umed that it was a 454 or 427 when in reality it was 'just' a 396. It was still a quantum leap healthier than any small block I ever had in there. Was it worth the extra weight? Well, the best ETs I ever got out of the small block (350-4spd, 3.08 gears) was [email protected] and the best with the big block (396 automatic, 5.14 gears) was [email protected] You tell me! There were some other changes to the car between engines, but the point is still valid.

Other strokers I have known...

My buddy Terry has a 347 (stroked 302) in his Pinto wagon. It runs 10.90s and picks the front wheels up at least a foot every pass and carries them a good car length. The 302 would barely pick up the wheels.

Terry also has a 514 (460 based) engine in a 72 Gran Torino Sport that runs 9.80s.

Terry's brother, Keith, had a 558 (bored and stroked 460) in his 89 Mustang. It blew up the second week of the season due to an ignition malfunction. He switched to his 'backup motor' a relatively 'stock 460' non-stroker and is now running [email protected]

Keiths other car, the 71 Mach 1, has a 484 (mildly stroked 460) and it runs 10.70s.

I'll be posting pics of these cars soon. Check the photo gallery.
 

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The key to making a small block ET is rear gears and stall converter. You handicapped your small block with the 3.08's and gave a huge advantage to your 396 with the 5.14's... would have been an interesting comparison with the small block and the 5.14's... The 396 would still be king but not by such a huge margin.

Who has the hot setup for 331 strokers?? I can't seem to get excited about a 351W due to the intake/distributor changes... But I havn't put the 390 big block out of my mind either...

I have a machist here locally with a 331 short block for $1900 w/o a core... eagle setup with J/E pistons... seems like a neat idea, would still maintain the stock appearance under the hood with justa little ol' 302... kinda fun maybe... ripping off 12's with such an animal with the fronts off the ground.

I havn't forgotten... Big Block=Big Power
 

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Ron, seems to be alot of 331/347 kits out there. Speeamotive, scat etc. $1900 dont sound so bad for a complete short block ready to go. I think most kits are probably in the $1000-$1200 range and by the time you add machine work and the clearincing invloved, there you go.

I dont know that much about the 302 strokers but check around, seems like more is always better but I think the 331 kits keep the piston pin out of the oil ring where the 347's get right up in it. The way you use your car though getting the pin up that high shouldnt bother you any. They both need the block ground to make em fit though.

Not knocking the 390 FE's I would prefer a 351 stroker any day. Cost is less and parts are much more plentifull, less weight, better durablity for high revs etc. mm
 

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You guys got me druling at wish books again last night looking at 351 strokers. I think I'm about 2 years from doing anything based on cost. 393 is the CU that seemed to be about where I want to go but in 2 years who knows.
 
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