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Discussion Starter #1
I need to make some adjustments to my steering drag link location in order to fit my engine application.

My dilemma is that the starter is in a location that is occupied by the drag link.
I have heard of people having to move steering parts in order to say. Fit an odd ball engine into a car.:)
This I need to correct in order to obtain a desirable engine angle and get it lower in the frame.

If I can move the drag link location to the front of the car about 1 ½ inch. I can set the engine back down to where I think it needs to be.

I have seen that the Shelby’s had longer idler arms and pitman arms. The quick steering setup I believe.
But that is for the 1968 and older models. That pitman arm will not fit the 70 steering box output shaft.

Question: are there any longer idler arms and pitman arms for the 1970 cougar and if not what might work from the wrecking yard – auto parts store.

I have looked into the forest of the Internet till my eyes bled out.
So I thought I might ask and see what comes back.
I am not to versed on what interchanges from what years/model cars.
Some people are amazing and know this stuff and this would help allot.

Question: Granada spindles, are those the same as the cougar or are they different in what way.

I do not wish to use the rack and pinion set-ups. They look nice and might be a solution to my problem but cost is not the only reason for not going that route.
I wish to stay with stock parts of some sort that can be found at any auto parts store/wrecking yard.
No matter what make/model/year it has to come from. If possible.

What I want to do is move the drag link forward towards the front and down.
About an inch in each direction.
Using maybe spindles with lower steering arms, (longer? Lower? idler arm),( longer? lower? pitman arm), setup for manual steering box and manual steering drag link.

I know that there are a lot of things to consider when I work on this as far as bump steer and other steering issues that crop up with steering geometry.
And I know that the manual steering part has caught some ones eye.
My thoughts are that if I can stay in a near stock configuration then later on I can put on a borgsen steering box and then I would have power steering.
I have been driving a manual steering cougar for almost 4 decades,( it keeps a guy strong…) so I might not even go with the borgsen box in the end.
Better gas mileage any way, and that is what I am after.
I have watched many of the members on this board for many years take their cars apart and actually finish them in to fine rides. Thanks to all of you on here for your efforts. That has helped me to keep on dreaming while I raised kids.
Slowly it is becoming my turn.
Any suggestion would be great.
The car is a 1970 cougar xr7 convert.
Thanks Mickp
 

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Discussion Starter #3
2300 turbo svo 4cyl.+5 speed about 250-300 hp max.
most people go the other way. 8+cyl. :)
 

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if you move the drag link without adjusting the spindle angles, you will screw up the Ackerman angles in your steering and the steering will, at best, bump steer, at worst give you non-linear steering that will be unpredictable through a corner.

I would be looking at relocating the sump or a custom sump and pick-ups that fits around the drag link. As the pinto motor is the basis for some competition engines that were dry sumped - that could be an option. You should have plenty of room for the oil tank

Your weight distribution will already be all over the place with the 4 cylinder. If you don't have the steering right it will be a lot worse -and probably downright dangerous
 

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Have you considered a rack and pinion conversion? Smaller and more easily relocated than the conventional set-up.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks Leon and rocketman.

Messing up the steering geometry is not what I want to do. I know that the original setup was not that great to start with so if I can keep it better or the same as the original that would be great and is what I am shooting for.
I understand ackerman angles, bumpsteer and how it is corrected. I also like to keep the construction safe but simple smart and with easily available parts. This makes choices of parts narrower.

I have been on the Internet reading to see what others have done. But allot of them were not for cougars or mustangs.
Mostly roadsters and trucks.
Some were down right dangerous with crappy welded tie rod ends and welded draglinks. I am not that good of a welder and I am not sure I could trust a welded cast pitman arm any way.

Question here is heating and bending of the drag link. Is it safe? Seen it done though. I thought that drag links were hardened and not to be heated and bent.
Other cars were well done using off the shelf stuff for GM. But, not on a mustang. But it was help full.

I have not looked at output shafts on the gearbox units for the GM cars to compare them to the one I have yet.
I am interested to find out if any of the GM units have the same diameter/spline?
If they do maybe that would open the door for pitmman arms.

What I did find for mustangs were the use of Granada spindles, it was mentioned that the Granada spindles messes up ackerman angles but no one mentioned to what degree or how it messes up the ackerman angle. Are the arms up higher, longer, bent inward or outward? Are there other spindles that have relocated arms that normally would not be use by mustang builders?
I am pretty sure that the Granada arms are pointed in more due to the shorter wheelbase.
But are they the same height.

If I knew what makes them wrong then there is a small possibility that the error in the spindles might work to my advantage. It is hard to compare parts when there are none available in the salvage yards.
We do not have old cars in our salvage yards here. They have rusted out before any other state and all that is left are the 1996 and newer cars. So running to the yard to look at what might fit can not happen and I have to depend on the
Experience of others for this information.

The Internet helps but. (I would love to spend a day in a huge old car salvage yard out west).
I was hoping that some one had already bumped into this problem with big v8s v10s? 32valve mod motors or (Chevrolet engines), headers.
If it were just the oil pan I would not have a problem. It is the smallest problem that I have.
A dry sump system is a good thought instead of making a new pan.

It is the starter that is the problem and is not so easily moved. It looks like it is located farther below the crank centerline than the v8.
I guess what I am looking for are maybe spindles with steering arms that might be lower than the cougar. Longer idler arms and pitman arms like the ones used on the Shelby’s. My focus is not so much the spindles, but the drag links/idler/pitman arms/tie rods.

I read that there might be some differences in the Torino spindles and other parts like drag link or differently bent tie rod ends. If I keep my spindles I should have less of a problem with the ackerman angle.

I have looked at allot of rack and pinion setups both vender and home brewed. From what I have read about rack setups is that even allot of the racks have steering issues such as smaller turning radius, and bumpsteer as well.
But obviously better than stock.

The price of the ready-made racks are not in my budget, so if I go the rack and pinion route, it will have to be home brewed.
I would like to stay with parts that can be had at any parts store.
I hate getting stuck 1200 miles from home because of a ******* part.
My thoughts are that if a rack can be put in to relocate the steering then I should be able to relocate and correct any
Problems using sources other than a rack and pinion. (I hope any way).

I also have been looking at the G.M. J-car racks they seem to be used for the mustangs.
I can brew one of those up to fit if I have to.
I would like to keep rack and pinion as my last option.

I have done allot of home work on my own searching forums and other sites.
Before posting here so that I have a good idea of what my goal is.

This is no small task to take on and I have the ability to get the end results. i can be dogmatic as well.
I just need to find the resources to R and D this together.

Thanks all for reading this.
Time to go back to searching the web.
Mick.
 

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Not everyone will agree with me on this, but a MII suspension or similar would work. Maybe TCI engineering. The parts would be off the shelf/parts store variety in the future. Just fortify the front with down tubes to gain the strength lost from removing the shock towers.
 

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Not everyone will agree with me on this, but a MII suspension or similar would work. Maybe TCI engineering. The parts would be off the shelf/parts store variety in the future. Just fortify the front with down tubes to gain the strength lost from removing the shock towers.
The MII might be an easier route or a front mounted Jag rack if you can find reverse spindles that work with the Ford upper and lower control arms.

When we convert from left to right hand drive we have to cut and twist the drag ling to get correct angles with the Falcon steering box. A small twist in the link makes all the difference to a car that tracks straight and one that wanders all over the road. The correct angles are more critical with a convertible because of the amount of flex in the body. When the drag link is cut it must be re-welded in a jig and has to be x-rayed to be legal

How far do you have to move the drag link for it to clear the sump?

Have you looked at a cut and shut to adapt a Windsor sump to the pinto. Sheet metal work is easier than working on cast products and there is less impact if something breaks.
 

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The Mustang II front end sounds like the ideal solution. Pinto engine should fit well since it was very common in the Mustang II to begin with. I would look for a salvage Mustang II that still had the four banger in it. You would get most of what you need.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
1bad68cat: I looked at the mustang II setup but cutting off the shock towers is bigger project than i was hopeing for.
i think i seen that setup in a mustang that a guy installed with a 2.3. nice setup but i would like to keep the car in as much of an original state as possible so that the car can be put back to it's original state if needed.

leon, it is not the oil pan but the starter that i need to clearance.
i need to move the drag link an inch forward and an inch down. and that would be with the engine as far back as possible.
i was not to sure of the welding of drag links or the posibility of makeing one. if that can be done then i am getting some where.
i should call a welder friend of mine in tenn.

thanks, mick
 

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Maybe the oil pan and oil pump pickup from a Ranger would work. Try looking at parts from other applications that used this engine. SVO and Tbird turbo setups (Fox body) had a double-sump oil pan. I know Pintos with the 2300 had a front sump. So did the Mustang II.
 

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Mick's problem is the starter...which is not really a problem if he's always careful to park on a slight hill. I got by for weeks with a dodgey starter by doing just that.
Yes, but does he have a manual trans?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
it is the starter motor that is in the way.

the oil pan is the easy part. no problem with the oil pan.

the starter motor looks to be farther below crank center line than the v8's.
it even hangs below the crank throws by quit a bit.
the the bottom of starter will be lower than the bottom of my oil pan when the oil pan is made.
it will be a front sump or dry sump depending on the steering out come.

i have allot of room for everything else.

i am still looking for a local yard with some old cars in it.
that way i can eyeball and measure things.

i went to the p.s.t. site and they have pics for evey listing ..but it is the same pic and not the actual part.
still looking at all possibilitys.

and i am still looking at rack/pinion as a last resort.

with out the starter it fits very nice.
hmmm...... great great grandpappy had a crank handle to start his..........naw.. :)

thanks mick.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
manual wc/t5..
 

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Discussion Starter #17
i may have found a way to get some extra clearance with a bellhousing adapter.
the adapter will move the starter to the outside and up on the block for use with a v8 bellhousing.
i am not to sure at this point but i suspect that this could put the starter where it is supposed to be and no mods to the steering linkage........:)

on the plus side of the adapter is that i will be able to install a clutch from a v8 going from a 9inch disc to a 10.5 inch disc.
ever try to hold up to 300 hp on a 9 inch pinto clutch? you can smell it on every hard run.

now all i have to do is scratch up the coin for the adapter to test that theory.

thanks mick..
 

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Haven't folks used Tempo R&P units on these cars? I thought Mercinary did that to his R code...
Taurus/Sable, I think.

Digging back into my foggy brain, I seem to remember my wife's '86 Tempo (and therefore the Merc Topaz) was a front steer system, like the Escort/Lynx. The Taurus/Sable was rear steer. Know a guy that did put one (Taurus unit) in a '69 Mustang 'vert; but he was very vague on how -especially in the series of articles printed in Mustang Illustrated and Hemming's. He'd talked to a lawyer buddy, and was afraid of the liability issues if somebody tried to copy it and FUBAR'd it up; along with a carload of schoolkids or the like.

Come to think of it, Mick, I think Cheapie (the car) ended up somewhjere in Michigan with a new owner; if you come across a '69 Mustang vert in Indian Fire with black top and interior, you might flop down on the ground and take a peak under the front.......
 

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Discussion Starter #19
i shall keep an eye out for it..

i will have to check out the taurus units just in case i need it some day.

for now it looks like the bellhousing adapter is going to be the trick.
i am still scratchin up loose change for the adaptor.

mp
 

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Taurus/Sable, I think.

Digging back into my foggy brain, I seem to remember my wife's '86 Tempo (and therefore the Merc Topaz) was a front steer system, like the Escort/Lynx.
I changed the rack in our old 89 Topaz a few years back. IIRC it was a rear-steer setup.
 
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