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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Re: Broken tranny housing bolt "ear" and a dime for your thougths. The next project.

Today was the day to swap the flywheel, pressure plate and clutch disc. Pilot bearing and throw-out bearing as well and while at it, why not the pressure plate and flywheel bolts.

For informational purposes I have a 1969 390 4V 4 speed convertible.

When removing the tranny and loosening the 4 main bolts,gear oil was leaking out from the front facing area. This is supposed to be a dry area. Why all the oil? After continuing on, it was realised that one of the "ears" where the 4 bolts go was broken off. The drivers top. This could be a reason for the vibration on accelerating. There is a bolt missing, not holding that corner of the tranny to the motor. The pics show it well.

Once we removed the tranny on the front face of it there are two "plugs". One is a plug, the other is a dime!! The thought is that this is where it is leaking. There is also a slight crack where the "ear" broke off in the casting. It is not clear how deep the crack goes into the casting of the tranny. Not good either way.

The clutch disc I got from Summit that was sent has a larger diameter than what is on this 4 speed. The disc on it is 1 1/8th diameter. Summit sent a disc 1 3/4 diameter. Is what Summit sent correct for what 4 speed SHOULD be on this Cougar and I instead have a 4 speed for a small block?

This is a starting point. I first want to find out what is the correct 4 speed tranny for this application. S code 390 4V. Is it the correct tranny, but have a broken "ear" and a dime for a plug?

If so I need a new casing and will swap out what I have, or is a complete very well rebuilt one available and I can return mine for a core. If this is the wrong size tranny then I want to get a correct size, really well built one instead.

Does anyone have a lead on where to find such information and locate what I am looking for??

I believe a Fairlane matches up well here for the Cougar. A Mustang is too small I believe.

Thank you in advance.

Bill

I have some pics to share but am having issues in attching them to this thread. Are there some pointers for that too. :))
 

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Re: Broken tranny housing bolt "ear" and a dime for your thougths. The next project.

There should be a tag riveted to the side of your main case, correct numbers on that for a Mustang and Cougar 390 would be RUG-AD1 for a close ratio or RUG-M3 for the wide ratio. Fairlane's have referent numbers. RUG-AL,RUG-C2 or RUG-J2. You should find the VIN stamped on one of the mounting ears. Hopefully you will find a good one some were. Sorry to hear about this problem.
 

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Re: Broken tranny housing bolt "ear" and a dime for your thougths. The next project.

Couple of things. While you are probably better off getting a new case, there might be some hope in having the case fixed (but you mentioned something about a crack in addition to the ear being broken off? Maybe not). Okay, for a new case, you can get one here: www.davidkeetoploaders.com. You also can get any parts you need, he probably does exchanges, there are ID charts there too. I have called and spoke to David directly and he is very helpful. He can answer your questions about clutch size and the like as well.

The dime is in place of a disk plug that should be there. Fairlane transmissions were longer tailshaft to my knowledge. David can answer all of your questions. Hope this helps.

Regards,

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Re: Broken tranny housing bolt "ear" and a dime for your thougths. The next project.

On the tag on the tranny the numbers that are there are HEH CL and the numbers 028802. There is a casting number on the tranny and they are C5AR-7008-D W1.

Any ideas on where to get one? I do not want to put this tranny back on with a broken area where the top drivers bolt goes thru.

Thank you very much for the info you provided. I am still trying to figure out how someone breaks off the corner of a transmission right now.
There should be a tag riveted to the side of your main case, correct numbers on that for a Mustang and Cougar 390 would be RUG-AD1 for a close ratio or RUG-M3 for the wide ratio. Fairlane's have referent numbers. RUG-AL,RUG-C2 or RUG-J2. You should find the VIN stamped on one of the mounting ears. Hopefully you will find a good one some were. Sorry to hear about this problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Re: Broken tranny housing bolt "ear" and a dime for your thougths. The next project.

Bob--------thank you for the intel. I will be calling david soon. I have some pics to post but am having issues doing that . I have in the past, but perhaps my resolution is too great. Can I email it to you and you help attach. I think they are great pics helping out to see what is going on. Thank you.

Bill
Couple of things. While you are probably better off getting a new case, there might be some hope in having the case fixed (but you mentioned something about a crack in addition to the ear being broken off? Maybe not). Okay, for a new case, you can get one here: www.davidkeetoploaders.com. You also can get any parts you need, he probably does exchanges, there are ID charts there too. I have called and spoke to David directly and he is very helpful. He can answer your questions about clutch size and the like as well.

The dime is in place of a disk plug that should be there. Fairlane transmissions were longer tailshaft to my knowledge. David can answer all of your questions. Hope this helps.

Regards,

Bob
 

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Re: Broken tranny housing bolt "ear" and a dime for your thougths. The next project.

Bill,

You either need to post the pictures on a picture site (such as photobucket) and link to them or you have to reduce them in size to 100 kb I think the limit is (which makes resolution not so good). So sorry to say emailing me the pictures won't help/get us there.

Regards,

Bob
 

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Re: Broken tranny housing bolt "ear" and a dime for your thougths. The next project.

On the tag on the tranny the numbers that are there are HEH CL and the numbers 028802. There is a casting number on the tranny and they are C5AR-7008-D W1.

Any ideas on where to get one? I do not want to put this tranny back on with a broken area where the top drivers bolt goes thru.

Thank you very much for the info you provided. I am still trying to figure out how someone breaks off the corner of a transmission right now.
HEH CL is a wide ratio trans out of a 1966 Fairlane with a 390.

And the 028802 are the last 6 of the VIN.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Re: Broken tranny housing bolt "ear" and a dime for your thougths. The next project.

Thank you for this info. As big as a pain in the a$$ this is, it is kinda fun trying to figure out this stuff.

This site, and other car enthusiast sites like it make it extremely helpful correct problems like this. Thank you all and if anyone else has any info please share.
HEH CL is a wide ratio trans out of a 1966 Fairlane with a 390.

And the 028802 are the last 6 of the VIN.
 

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Re: Broken tranny housing bolt "ear" and a dime for your thougths. The next project.

On the tag on the tranny the numbers that are there are HEH CL and the numbers 028802. There is a casting number on the tranny and they are C5AR-7008-D W1.

Any ideas on where to get one? I do not want to put this tranny back on with a broken area where the top drivers bolt goes thru.

Thank you very much for the info you provided. I am still trying to figure out how someone breaks off the corner of a transmission right now.
We now know you have a main case from a 1966 Fairlane. You now should check the tail shaft casting number. I don't have casting numbers for it in front of me but, A Fairlane tail shaft will have something like a C6OR- casting number and Mustang/Cougar will be something like C6ZR. The C6 part may not be exact but the "O" and "Z" should be in the 3rd location.
With the main case not being original to the car some one could have had one put together to fit correctly. But many people have used wrong number 4 speeds for replacement and up grades in the past..
 

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Re: Broken tranny housing bolt "ear" and a dime for your thougths. The next project.

The dime is actually a pretty common rebuilders trick, or used to be. I've seen it on a number of toploaders. No more prone to leak than the factory part, in my experience.
Does this statement: "The clutch disc I got from Summit that was sent has a larger diameter than what is on this 4 speed. The disc on it is 1 1/8th diameter. Summit sent a disc 1 3/4 diameter." refer to the opening in the disc, for the input splines? If so, then the smaller diameter (same as for 289/302/351 applications) is correct for a 390 Cougar/Mustang/Fairlane/Comet toploader. 427/428/429 engines got the large input/output toploaders, 390s did not. The overall length of the 390 input is shorter than for a smallblock, but the diameter & spline count are the same.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Re: Broken tranny housing bolt "ear" and a dime for your thougths. The next project.

Ill need to take a look at the tail shaft number to see what it says. Another question is let's say this is from a 1966 Fairlane and I want to put a RUG-AL that is from a year correct 1969, model wrong Fairlane but ratio correct, close, is it the same length as the one in there now. Will the driveshaft match up length wise??

There are a few things I need to try to figure out. I put a call into Davie Kee to see and am awaiting his reply back.

Thank you.
We now know you have a main case from a 1966 Fairlane. You now should check the tail shaft casting number. I don't have casting numbers for it in front of me but, A Fairlane tail shaft will have something like a C6OR- casting number and Mustang/Cougar will be something like C6ZR. The C6 part may not be exact but the "O" and "Z" should be in the 3rd location.
With the main case not being original to the car some one could have had one put together to fit correctly. But many people have used wrong number 4 speeds for replacement and up grades in the past..
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Re: Broken tranny housing bolt "ear" and a dime for your thougths. The next project.

Yes, what I am measuring with those numbers is the inside diameter of the clutch disc itself. So, when I told Summit I have a 390 and they were calling it a big block, they used perhaps the 427/428/429 big block reference, which is WRONG for my application. I really should have a smaller diameter (same as for a 289/302/351) and yet also have a shorter lengthed input shaft as well.

Thank you for your response. I assume what is also the limiting factor here regarding diameter of the input shaft is the pilot bushing that sits in the flywheel that the input shaft goes into, right?

The dime is actually a pretty common rebuilders trick, or used to be. I've seen it on a number of toploaders. No more prone to leak than the factory part, in my experience.
Does this statement: "The clutch disc I got from Summit that was sent has a larger diameter than what is on this 4 speed. The disc on it is 1 1/8th diameter. Summit sent a disc 1 3/4 diameter." refer to the opening in the disc, for the input splines? If so, then the smaller diameter (same as for 289/302/351 applications) is correct for a 390 Cougar/Mustang/Fairlane/Comet toploader. 427/428/429 engines got the large input/output toploaders, 390s did not. The overall length of the 390 input is shorter than for a smallblock, but the diameter & spline count are the same.
 

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Re: Broken tranny housing bolt "ear" and a dime for your thougths. The next project.

"Thank you for your response. I assume what is also the limiting factor here regarding diameter of the input shaft is the pilot bushing that sits in the
flywheel that the input shaft goes into, right?"

Yes and no. The part of the input shaft that rides in the pilot bushing is different between 390 and 289/302/351. That's what causes the 390 input shaft to be shorter. A toploader from a 427 or 428 application will work behind a 390, but as you've found, the clutch disc (as well as the throwout bearing) must be changed to match.
If you're mixing and matching clutch parts, be sure to note that the overall diameter of the discs varied by application as well, and must be matched to the correct diameter pressure plate. And the large clutch combos won't fit all factory bellhousings. These days you can get a small-diameter disc/pressure plate with big input splines or any other combination you want from the aftermarket. But it gets a little tricky making modified combos work with factory parts sometimes.
 
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