Mercury Cougar Owners banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
This past summer another member (who doesn't seem to frequent anymore) and I tried to diagnose my sequential turn signals and why they used to work and don't now.

He taught me a lot and i totally appreciate all the knowledge he passed on to me.. We never got it solved because of work implications I had no time to work on it. I now have a little more time I can spend on the old girl. I have gone back through all our old messages and retired everything that he told me to try and still nothing. So I come to you, i hope you can help. One of the last things to get my '67 on the road.

So here is a current break down of what happens..



There is power getting to the turn signal switch as the sequential motor runs in Left/Right/4-way positions. So contact 2 is getting power (from above illustration) and contacts 5 and 3 are good in the switch (turning the signal motor on). When signalling left the left k9 relay in the trunk clicks sometimes.. I suspect a dirty contact in the switch as jumping 2 and 4 will close the relay in the trunk. Nothing at all happens when you select the right signal at the column. The left dash indicator comes on and the motor turns in the trunk. Jumping 2 and 6 will not close a relay in the trunk.. So i think I need to either disassemble and clean my switch or get a new one, which i am not very fond of as i heard they are pricey? It would also appear I need to replace the k8 relay in the trunk, but upon further investigation found that the k8/k9 relay seem to be an integral piece back there.. with a lot of wires going to them. At least thats what I heard thunking open and close when jumpering the k9 relay.

Selecting the 4-ways brings on both dash indicators, starts the motor in the trunk, and turns on 0 outside lights. All the bulbs work and are good.

So in summary,

Left side works temperamentally.. seems to be dirty switch contacts. Relay selects in the trunk, motor runs, dash indicator flashes.

Right side does nothing, no indicator light, no relay selection, motor runs in the trunk.

4-ways brings on both dash indicators.. So then the k5 relay must still be ok as it is what controls the right dash indicator correct?

Im gonna be honest im partially baffled lol. This is why I needed a professional, I've test most of the stuff. I need more information on these systems, can you help me?

Thank-you so much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,422 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: Rosfrei

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
So in summary,

Left side works temperamentally.. seems to be dirty switch contacts. Relay selects in the trunk, motor runs, dash indicator flashes.

Right side does nothing, no indicator light, no relay selection, motor runs in the trunk.

4-ways brings on both dash indicators.. So then the k5 relay must still be ok as it is what controls the right dash indicator correct?

Im gonna be honest im partially baffled lol. This is why I needed a professional, I've test most of the stuff. I need more information on these systems, can you help me?

Thank-you so much.
I had problems too. When I replace the turn signal mechanism in the steering column, both sides started working. I didn't go through the trouble shooting process because I knew the turn signal switch was bad.

What I didn't know at the time is the is a rebuild kit that is cheap. The switch assembly isn't.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I did the troubleshooting, and I jumped the correct pins to get everything working with the switch not in the equation. And still no blinky blinky. Repair kit eh? Got any links to a reputable source? Actually I see WCCC has the rebuild for like $9
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Paul, that is a beauty kit.. I wish I could dump all my money on this car.. but in reality I wont even be able to drive it for another 4 years.... so its going to be kept on intravenous till then ;)

Wanna know what sucks? Being under 25 and owning a beauty of a car.. and trying to insure it. especially in Canada... GoshDarnit

The taillights are evading my brain. I have read the entire manual that WCCC has on their site regarding the sequential turns.. These used to work like 2 years ago, and just one day all of the sudden stopped working. Jumping power to the correct pins does not make the right dash indicator come on.. and it should because pushing the emergency flasher button in causes both dash indicators to come on.. The bulb and bulb ground are good. k6 relay is good, but the k5 relay to tell the right indicator to come on when right is selected on the turn switch is not getting power.. Why? i have no idea.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
I too had problem with my 72,they worked and then stopped.I took all the lights out of their socket in the back of the car and cleaned the connections put all new bulbs in ,played with the wire harness to the sequential box in the trunk and then tried it.Still didn't work.I asked for help too from this sight and I was told to have the car running because your battery would not produce enough power to run them if you fave been playing with them for long.I started the car and whala they worked.Haven't had a problem since(6 years now).I hope this helps,it's not technical but it worked for me.Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Superbond, thanks for the input.. Unfortunately that isn't the problem. I have a fresh battery in there, it stays on a battery tender all the time. So I had the full 13.5+ volts to run the system..

Its something stupid causing this, mark my words lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,680 Posts
Well you might not get enough juice in the system, even with a battery tender hooked up, i would start the car and check again to be really sure that you get enough power to run the sequentials, old wires, dirty contacts, points etc robs the system of much needed power, also bring up the rpm´s a bit when testing too
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
335 Posts
They responded to me. You may want to make a short video clip of the real lights and send it to them this may help.
 

·
Contributing Member
Joined
·
1,881 Posts
One time I removed my taillight housings, took them apart to clean lenses. After I re-installed them on the car the lights wouldn't work correctly. Sometimes the turn signals would work but not all the lights would come on. The ones that did come on were dim.


The brake lights worked. I tried and checked everthing.


What I found out was; Most of the threaded posts on the housings were not making contact with the sides of the holes. (could be a ground problem) As soon as I loosened the housings and shifted then to one side and re tightened the nuts everything worked great.


You never did say if your brake lights worked, do they?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Hey all! So I never did figure this out! I am back at it again somewhat and want to get it working. The car is not local to me at this time, so I cannot just pop out to the driveway and take a look see or try something.

So a little recap is in order I guess..

The parking lights and brake lights all work, save for the one tail that is missing its socket and someone has jerry-rigged another socket of sorts in there. The turn signal switch activates the sequencing motor in both directions as does the hazard switch. The left, right and both dash indicators also light up with their respective circuitry.

-The signal circuit has power
-All bulbs have a ground
-Sequencing motor is receiving power, and turning
-The k10 (Emergency Relay A) is receiving its ignition power
-Unsure if the k6 (Emergency Warning Relay) is receiving power.. I'd have to find it along with the K7 and k5, which are supposed to be grouped together ???
-Unsure if the K8/K9 are being told whether or not to split power to either side, and that could be an issue, as per my readings without a signal the tail lights are in "Brake light" mode.

I am not sure exactly what is going on really, everything should work but there is no bulb output. I guess I could try jumping power the k8 or k9 output and see if i then get power to bulbs. Also I suppose I need to see if power is leaving the sequencing motor eh?

Sorry for the post all over the place, i was reading and writing.

ps. Yes I have read every big name article/thread about the systems, just need some real life feedback is all :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,853 Posts
Rosfrel, For what it's worth. My lights did not work when I got my car. I replaced and checked all bulbs upon installation. Motor in truck and cam inside box turned as it should but still nothing. I had break lights and running lights but that was it. I cleaned the contacts for the cam that the motor drives and nothing. I tried doing some trouble shooting and found all kinds of great advice here but am not the best at reading schematics and such. I cheated and ordered a solid state K8/K9 relay just cause. and also a new K'10 relay. Come to find out the K'8 and K-9 relay in the trunk were the culprits. After swapping that out now everything works beautiful!! Now I want to see if I can repair the original relay but in the meantime the solid state one will stay in the car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
308 Posts
The K5, K6, and K7 are all under the dash next to the steering column on the Windshield motor bracket and as you have already observed the K7 is working as power is getting to the sequential motor, the k5 and k6 are for selecting the left right dash lights.

As you pointed out, you should make sure power is coming out of the sequential motor one wire will go to the K8/K9 relay (for the center lights) and the other two wires will feed the K10 as input for the inner and outer lights.

You can download my writeup from the other site

http://classiccougarcommunity.com/w..._Turn_Signal_System_Troubleshooting_Guide.pdf

Let me know if you have any additional questions

Coach Jack
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Rosfrel, For what it's worth. I cheated and ordered a solid state
Nothing wrong with that! If I had the cash, I'd get the unit too (might end up having to anyway.. lol).

COACHJACK, thanks for having a say in my thread! You are definitely the professional help needed haha!

While I had the wiring all in a shambles in the trunk, I did the wiring tests to the K10 relay. It is getting 12v as it should and making the inner and outer light connections as it should. It is also properly being told to not make those connections when the hazard is pushed in. So that's all good.

I pulled the SEQM and K8/K9 relays from the trunk to do some cleaning and testing on them. Removed the cover of the SEQM and made sure its contacts and the likes were in order, it looks absolutely brand new under that cover.. incredible. I gave it power and ground and tested the three output leads. All of them had a pulsing 12v with their corresponding cam in the motor. For the K8/K9 I heard something moving around inside, fearing the worst that the relays were broken, I too took it apart for inspection. It was the inside of the case that had rusted so badly and begun to shed rust flakes everywhere.. likely shorting circuits and being the reason the one of them wouldnt actuate properly.. Get all the rust outta there and give it a good blow out and both K8/K9 relays work perfectly :). I got through some of its testing before I had to leave, The brake light contacts all have continuity (but we knew this already as my brake lights worked).

One thing I noticed.. It said when testing the three output wires of the SEQM;

Testing SQM off of car
1. Apply 12V to #459 and ground to motor. Motor and cam should turn
2. Check for 12V continuous voltage on #437
3. Check for 12V cycling voltage on the following
a. #436
b. #438


I had cycling voltage on all three of the SEQM outputs.. I think the wiring of the car there should be a 12v constant at the #437? Cause I see noway how it can be a constant 12v from the SEQM when it is in fact one of the three cams that gives it power, and it cycles on and off with the cam opening and closing its contact.

Still need to test these circuits; (it was at this time i heard the rust in the k8/k9 and proceeded to tear them down)

Place 12V on K9 relay #440 and common ground. Check the following for continuity
a. #438A to #444
b. #437 to #443
c. #436A to #442
d. #437 to #449 (may go to 448 as the diagrams are contradictory)
3. Place 12V on K8 relay #441A and common ground. Check the following for continuity
a. #438A to #447
b. #437 to #446
c. #436A to #445
d. #437 to #448 (may go to 449 as the diagrams are contradictory)



ps. If I wanted to go solid state? I'd need this one yeah? as I don't have the stop lamp relay back there..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Everything inside was nice and pristine :)



The SEQM looks even cleaner than this! But I didnt take a picture..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
308 Posts
Rosfrei,

Thanks for the correction, circuit 437 should cycle and not be continuous:

SQM off of car
1. Apply 12V to #459 and ground the motor. The motor and cam should turn
2. Check for 12V cycling voltage on the following
a. #436 – inner taillight power
b. #437 – center taillight power
c. #438 – outer taillight power

SQM on car
1. Ignition ON, turn signal (left or right) or HZWSW ON.
2. Check for 12V continuous voltage on #459 (from K7 relay). Note if power is present in only the left or right mode but not the HZWSW, or vice-versa, then the problem is back in the Turn Signal Switch or the Input power to the turn signal switch as the Turn signal power is provided via a different circuit than the HZWSW. See the Turn Signal section for additional testing.
3. Check for 12V cycling voltage on the following
a. #436 – inner taillight power
b. #437 – center taillight power
c. #438 – outer taillight power

Coach Jack
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
SQM on the car I have power at the #459 in all three positions; Left, Right and Hazard. I think the issue is power not leaving (or getting to lol) the directional relay (k8/k9) and then out to the turn lights. As the even the center and fronts don't flash at all.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top