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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i have a old school spray gun.back more years than i like to think about ,i did my own spraying.all i ever used was that kind of gun.my projects came out rather nice if i say so myself.my question is can i use this gun for modern products.i would think if i used it for high build primer it would be ok.im sanding and blocking anyway.i dont know what to do about the finish paint.i am going to spend a lot of coin for b&c i dont wanna screw it up.on the other hand i am doing everything on the car and would like to keep it that way through the paint.i am painting the car basic red.no flecks or any thing fancy.do the modern products react like the old in my gun.
thanks charlie
 

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You should have one gun for primer and one for paint.
Use the old one for primer get a new one for paint.
What kind? I'll leave that to the professionals.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
you are 100% correct.i actually have many guns.just didnt want to get to confusing and have to type that at the time.guess that didnt work out.guess that is what i get for being lazy.thanks for your input.
charlie
 

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It would depend more on the needle size than anything really. For the newer base/clear setups, you should be using a 1.3 to 1.4 tip, the older gun is most likely a 1.7 or 1.8, its fine for primer, but it will not atomize the paint good enough for most base/clear coats. I use a Devilbiss GTA gun on a daily basis, I spray 3-4 cars a day, but I know of people using gravity feed guns from Lowes that get decent results for a hobbyist. Check into them, or something from Eastwood, paint is not cheap, I wouldnt chance it personally
 

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my cheap 40 dollar hvlp gun from menards works great for primer, it comes with 2 tips, 1.5 i think and 2.0 which i am using for primer, my finish gun is a sharpe cobalt hvlp, with a 1.3 or 1.4 tip
 

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The Cobalt one is the one Im talking about actually, I havent used it, but seems to be worth the money from what people have told me. I use a 1.4 for my base and a 1.3 for my clear, a lot of the lower priced guns come with an array of tips, check into them, it will definately make a difference. I have a seperate gun for primer,base,and clear, but for what your looking to do, a gun with a selection of tips would be a good buy
 

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Just a question, I also use a Devilbiss GTA for lacquering my guitars that I build. I have used it for other automotive paint, but why would it be bad to use this same gun on primer or even epoxy primer?
The reason that I ask is, I don't have a rodicary for my car and for painting under the car the Devilbiss GTA is great when you use the bag inside the cup so you can spray upside down. If I used it and right away cleaned it well wouldn't that be fine?
 

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hey tony its not the lowes type cobalt this is prof type gun, i bought mine at napa, its a sharpe, i shoulda been more specfic lol , so its a sharpe cobalt. i fixed my org post too
 

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Just a question, I also use a Devilbiss GTA for lacquering my guitars that I build. I have used it for other automotive paint, but why would it be bad to use this same gun on primer or even epoxy primer?
The reason that I ask is, I don't have a rodicary for my car and for painting under the car the Devilbiss GTA is great when you use the bag inside the cup so you can spray upside down. If I used it and right away cleaned it well wouldn't that be fine?
For what you are doing with it, as long as you clean it well,you should be fine. The main problem is that the fluid tips are usually very big with primer,so it wont spray paint well, and the tips designed to spray paint wont work too well with spraying primer,usually comes out "fuzzy" and dry.
 

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I use a 1.4 for my base and a 1.3 for my clear, a lot of the lower priced guns come with an array of tips, check into them, it will definately make a difference. I have a seperate gun for primer,base,and clear, but for what your looking to do, a gun with a selection of tips would be a good buy
The reason you use larger nozzle size for primer is because the primers are normally higher in viscosity (thicker.) That is why the high build polyster primers require at least a 1.7mm nozzle, but 1.9 or 2.1 is preferred.

Question for 71Monte: I am curious as to why you use 1.4 for bc and 1.3 for clear urethane? Ater reading many posts on different forums, these 2 nozzle sizes get switched back and forth quite often which has me totally confused as to which size should be used. I would think the base coat is not as thick as the clear coat, therefore you would use the 1.3 nozzle for bc. Then for the thicker (higher viscosity) clear, you would use the 1.4mm nozzle. I am wrong with this thinking????

Keep in mind, I have only sprayed PPG Deltron BC and PPG Concept 2020 urethane clear....the clear seems thicker to me. Possibly different brands react differently wr2 bc vs cc viscosities.

Thanks in advance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
thanks everybodyi think you gave me enough info.to get me in trouble(LOL).seriously i think i will stick to priming my car.then i will try to find smeone who knows new products and is willing to work with me on the paint.i still want to spray it myself but want a decent job.believe me when i tell you it is not about saving money.im not rich but i speak for a lot of us when i say its nice to do your own work and let that be known.although paint is expensive and im over budget so much now i just may take a chance with someone standing close bye.
thanks charie
 

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Question for 71Monte: I am curious as to why you use 1.4 for bc and 1.3 for clear urethane? Ater reading many posts on different forums, these 2 nozzle sizes get switched back and forth quite often which has me totally confused as to which size should be used. I would think the base coat is not as thick as the clear coat, therefore you would use the 1.3 nozzle for bc. Then for the thicker (higher viscosity) clear, you would use the 1.4mm nozzle. I am wrong with this thinking????

Keep in mind, I have only sprayed PPG Deltron BC and PPG Concept 2020 urethane clear....the clear seems thicker to me. Possibly different brands react differently wr2 bc vs cc viscosities.

Thanks in advance.
Ok, here is what Ive found from my personal experience, I work in a somewhat small shop, I paint anywhere from 1 to 4 jobs a day,depending on the workload, the 1.4 nozzle works great for my sealers and basecoat, I use RM Diamont on a daily basis, the 1.3 works great for my clearcoats using RM as well, what you are saying makes perfect sense, and I originally tried that setup, but I was having a problem with solvent pops and dieback on my clearcoats, due to the air flow in my booth, it all depends on where you are spraying, generally, the 1.4 will work fine for clearcoating, its just a personal thing from tirial and error,
 

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OK, that makes sense. Thanks!

I am on the other end of the spectrum because I go for several months between paint jobs. Maybe all I need is one high end spray gun w/ a 1.3 nozzle to handle both my bc and cc. I've been looking to upgrade my old Binks guns (non HVLP) with most likely a SATA NR2000.

A question regarding the Diamont clear urethanes: Once you open the hardener/catalyst for the clear, how long of a shelf life exists before it no longer works? The problem w/ the PPG urethane clear hardener is once it is open, shelf life is 4-6 weeks max. That wouldn't be a problem with your volume of work, but w/ my occasional painting, it really gets expensive.
 

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Ive never really had a problem with it hardening up on me or anything, I have some hardeners that have been open for probably 2 years,and they still work fine. Ill ask the question with our rep on Monday though.
Also, from my experience, the NR2000 guns are not worth the money in my opinion. They are very tempermental, and to spray base and clear out of the same gun,especially a Sata, youll be asking for trouble. The metallics seem to find a place to hide in the gun head while your cleaning it, then come out in the clear, it is not good!
The Devilbiss GTI is what I have for both base and clear, they come with 3 different tip sets,the Sata you have to buy and entire fluidtip/head assembly for almost 200 bucks. The Devilbiss has a wider fan also, just seems to lay down paint better. Its a lower priced gun than the Sata, and for someone who doesnt spray paint every day, the Sata just isnt worth it. Actually, even for someone who does spray ever day its not worth it. Just my opinion, Ill let you know what our rep has to say about shelf lifes on the catalyst
 

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With paint you can extend the shelf life by purging the air from the can with argon. Not sure if that works with hardener.

OK, that makes sense. Thanks!

I am on the other end of the spectrum because I go for several months between paint jobs. Maybe all I need is one high end spray gun w/ a 1.3 nozzle to handle both my bc and cc. I've been looking to upgrade my old Binks guns (non HVLP) with most likely a SATA NR2000.

A question regarding the Diamont clear urethanes: Once you open the hardener/catalyst for the clear, how long of a shelf life exists before it no longer works? The problem w/ the PPG urethane clear hardener is once it is open, shelf life is 4-6 weeks max. That wouldn't be a problem with your volume of work, but w/ my occasional painting, it really gets expensive.
 

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Well i use Sikkens paints at the moment, but have been using Spies Hecker, Glasurit, Du Pont and several other brands, and i presently use the the Iwata 400 w/1.4 needle and nozzle for the basecoat, Devilbiss Compact w/1.2 tip/nozzle for the clearcoat, and have a Devilbiss GTI w/1.4 tip/nozzle for primers, the GTI is okay for basecoats too, the Iwata is better tho, i've also used Devilbiss JGA guns earlier, those where great, and have had several Sata guns, Sata Jet 90, 95, 2000, 2000 digital, 3000, 3000 digital, and 3000 RP digital, and i must say, if you opt for a Sata gun, go for the Sata 3000 RP digital, it's truly a great gun to use, atleast on clear, it really is a dream to shoot clear with that gun.
 

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..... and have had several Sata guns, Sata Jet 90, 95, 2000, 2000 digital, 3000, 3000 digital, and 3000 RP digital, and i must say, if you opt for a Sata gun, go for the Sata 3000 RP digital, it's truly a great gun to use, atleast on clear, it really is a dream to shoot clear with that gun.
Jan,

The "RP" in the SATA line refers to reduced pressure. Isn't the RP line of SATA guns designed for the painter who has a smaller air compressor and has a limited volume of air??? I have an Ingersoll Rand 2-stage compressor and air volume or pressure is not a problem.

So I will ask your opinion, in my case where I am painting a couple of cars per year, but nevertheless still expect the very best quality paint finish, what would be the best bc gun and clear urethane gun for me???

Most of the paint I spray is a metallic color, therefore I require a very good gun to avoid tiger striping, mottling, etc...

thanks....
 

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Ive never really had a problem with it hardening up on me or anything, I have some hardeners that have been open for probably 2 years,and they still work fine. Ill ask the question with our rep on Monday though.
Also, from my experience, the NR2000 guns are not worth the money in my opinion. They are very tempermental, and to spray base and clear out of the same gun,especially a Sata, youll be asking for trouble. The metallics seem to find a place to hide in the gun head while your cleaning it, then come out in the clear, it is not good!
The Devilbiss GTI is what I have for both base and clear, they come with 3 different tip sets,the Sata you have to buy and entire fluidtip/head assembly for almost 200 bucks. The Devilbiss has a wider fan also, just seems to lay down paint better. Its a lower priced gun than the Sata, and for someone who doesnt spray paint every day, the Sata just isnt worth it. Actually, even for someone who does spray ever day its not worth it. Just my opinion, Ill let you know what our rep has to say about shelf lifes on the catalyst
Thanks! The PPG epoxy primer (DPLF) catalysts seem to have a rather long shelf life, but the urethane clear is the one that sucks. In fact, PPG claims in there user info that it has a 2 week window, but I have stretched it out to 5 or 6 weeks.

I am surprised you don't care for the SATA NR2000 gun. I have heard great reviews for that gun, but I certainly respect your opinion due the volume of painting you do daily and the number of guns you have tried.
 

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I've been tracking this thread with some interest because I have been very unsatisfied with about the last 4 guns I have played with. I have never had a problem with the old high pressure guns in getting extremely nice smooth paint. With the HVLP stuff I have never gotten what I call good-excellent results and I have played with pressure, tips, etc. Everybody likes the results of my last job, but deep down I am dissappointed with it again. I don't think you can get as good with HVLP as you can with "old" wasteful guns....without sanding and buffing. But maybe my technique still needs work. I am better off wasting paint and saving time as far as I can tell. BC/CC is the most durable, I'll give it that. But that's about it. I am frustrated even though I have used Devilbiss and other "good" guns. It's unbelievable how much paint costs now. I have found myself wondering if I can afford to screw up a job and redo it over the cost of having somebody else to shoot it in the first place? It's almost break even at that point....hobbyists beware!
 

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Jan,

The "RP" in the SATA line refers to reduced pressure. Isn't the RP line of SATA guns designed for the painter who has a smaller air compressor and has a limited volume of air??? I have an Ingersoll Rand 2-stage compressor and air volume or pressure is not a problem.

So I will ask your opinion, in my case where I am painting a couple of cars per year, but nevertheless still expect the very best quality paint finish, what would be the best bc gun and clear urethane gun for me???

Most of the paint I spray is a metallic color, therefore I require a very good gun to avoid tiger striping, mottling, etc...

thanks....
Yes, the "RP" stands for reduced pressure, but it's still a HVLP gun and is meant for "regular" shops, the gun you are thinking of is the LP, LV or LVLP guns, witch are designed for those with smaller aircompressors.

When i used Glasurit some years ago, i used the Sata 2000 guns both on bc and cc, very good guns indeed, when the new line of clears from Glasso came with the VOC 3,5, i upgraded the bc gun to a Sata 3000, but the clear wasn't so easy to shoot with the regular 2000 and 3000 guns, it felt very "thick" but with the 3000 RP, it felt like melted butter, flowed on very easy and lightly, it sure was a dream to use, so different brands of clear, or also bc may be very different to shoot depending on what brand and type of gun used.

So an old gun might not be so good to use with the latest types of paints, it will work, but it might be a bit harder and more work to shoot the modern paints with a very old gun.

The tiger stripes you mention, is more due to adjusting the gun, they appear when you get too much spread on the spray pattern, witch will give too much paint on th edges en too little in the middle.
Before you start shooting the paint on the car, hold it up in the air and pull the trigger, you'll see a pattern something like this, (gun-) I< with equal ammount of paint within the pattern , if the pattern shows like this, (gun) I( and you see the paint "fog" is thicker at the edges and very little in the middle, you get tigerstripes.

Shoot some paint on some maskingpaper or somewhere else for a test, you want a pattern like this (), if it's like this O you have too much in the middle and easy to get tigerstipes, if it's like this )( you have too little in the middle and also easy to get tigerstripes.
The overlap when you shoot is should also be around 50%, for example, when you start shooting a side, hold the gun so half the spray pattern is "outside" like half on the sidewindow masking, and lower half on the panel, then next stoke gets upper half of pattern over what is already painted, and lower half "fresh", or you can use the needle tip as a sight, and always have the needle aimed at the edge of the previous paint stroke.
(things like this are always easier to show than to explain with words ;) )

So my suggestion for an easy great and suitable allround gun will be the Sata 3000 RP gun, or if you want 2 guns, one for bc and one for cc, get a Sata 2000/3000, Iwata 400 or Devilbiss Compact for the bc, and a Sata 3000 RP for the clears
 
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