[jdalu]

I've attached a photo of my '69 4-spd prior to it's trip to it's trip to (the great unknown we all know as) the body shop. My question is this:

Could hood lock-pins be added as a factory option to any car, and did they come as part of a 351 performance package?

There was no doubt in mind they were factory on my car until discussing the issue w/ the owner of a nicely restored '69 Eliminator yesterday at Carlisle. He was adamant that they were only available on the 428 Eliminators, and NEVER on a mere 351. Anyone know the deal? I'm waiting on an "Eminger Report" to find out for sure, but I think the pins might have come along with one of the "351" hood stripes.

Tell me what you know!

 

[428elim]

I am the owner of the Eliminator you saw at Carlisle. You weren't listening when I told you they were only available as an option on 428 ram-air cars. That includes XR-7,standards, convertibles and Eliminators. And you told me you had a 351 Windsor Cobra Jet and not a mere 351. Anyone else out that has a 351 Windsor CJ I'd like to hear from you as I'm unaware Ford made this engine. I think the hood pins look good on all the 69's and its totally up to you as to what you put on on car. You ask me what I thought and I told you. If you took it out of context I'm sorry. Hopefully someone else on this site can shed some more light on the subject.

Barry

 

[Ray]

No hood pins

Have to agree with the no pins myself.I have done many cats and did install a pair of the locking style like on the Mach 1 but incorrect for the 70 Boss 302 Eliminator.We used the twist type to cover the terrible looking holes left by some one else adding the cable type.I myself would never run those crappy lookin cables that scratch paint and allthough were probly a dealer option so were Chevs and I won't run one of them either.

 

[modifiedmark]

There is no such thing as a 351 windsor CJ. Heck they only made the 4bbl version for two years until ford put some in some pickups in the mid 80's

 

[Knucklebuster]

I don't know if hood pins were a factory option for your 351 equipped car, but dealer options included all sorts of oddities.

If the factory invoice doesn't show hood locking pins, prooving to a judge that your hood pins were a dealer option might be tricky, unless you can track down a sale slip. Perhaps a listing of available dealer options is out there somewhere?

Dealers added chrome engine dress up kits, dual quad intakes, and all sorts of fun stuff. Hood pins would be an easy mod to tack on before a buyer took possession.

Good luck in tracking your history!

Joel

 

[jdalu]

Thanks for all the responses re: the hood pins!

Sorry if my post sounded like I was challenging anyone's knowledge of Cougar trivia! ;-) It's hard to beleive that the pins on my car haven't been there for thirty years- if they're fake, someone did a great job, and definetely fooled me! What I had thought was that there were two different option packages that might explain my car's strange option:

The first (and most likely, I thought), is the "351 Performance Group", that included "power dome" hood stripes, high rate springs, stabilizer bar and heavy duty shocks. Sort of a copy of the 428 "power dome" hood with no ram air, but similar hood striping? Is there a photo like this in the sales literature? Perhaps lock pins were part of the package? I'm really not sure, thus my question.

The second was what I've heard called the 351CJ; to the best of my knowledge, this was simply the former, with the addition of ram air. Maybe this is just some urban legend? Seems to be the case based on everyone's opinions.

Thanks to everyone for your feedback,
Hope to see you at Williamsburg,
Joe

 

[Ray]

351 CJ

This was a Cleveland engine and appeared in 72 I believe."Q" code on data plate and fifth position on serial #.I have a 351CJ air cleaner assembly for sale for $100 if any one would like it.It has the vacuum door that still works and the chrome lid w/351CJ decal.Snorkel is missing otherwise in good condition.The hood pins were available from the dealers and my 390 XR7 appears to have had them.Luckily someone took them off before I got the car and saved me the trouble as I don't care for them.Catz yaz

 

[Logan]

Anytime I've ever heard a 351CJ mentioned, it was in reference to a 71-72 351 Cleveland with the 4bbl heads and intake on it. With massive 2.19 Intake valves it's a screamer...

 

[modifiedmark]

jdalu, My 69 sports special is a 351 performance group option car. It had no hood pins but it dose have the hood stripe if that helps any.

 

[Cougrrcj]

Cleveand 4Vs

OK, Cleveland history lesson here....

In 70-early 71 there was a 351C-4V that used closed chamber 4V heads. This engine was the 'M' engine code.

In late 71-74 (yes, 74!) there was a 351C-4V that used open chamber heads. This is the 'Q' engine code ( NOTE: not to be confuse with the 69-70 428 'Q' engine code!) This engine is also called the 351CJ.

In 71 there was also the Boss 351. This was a mechanical lift camshaft, Holley equipped, 351C-4V. This had a 'R' engine code.

1n 72 they detuned the Boss 351 and made what they called the 351HO. It was a lower compression Boss 351. (with some other canges as well.

Now, I'm gonna let you all in on a little secret. On a Cleveland 4V head, there are little '4's on the upper corners of the head, just outside of the valve covers. OK fine. Now, if you see a bump or pimple (about 1/4" in diameter) next to the '4', this signifies an open chamber head. If it is a '4' with no bump it signifies a closed chamber head.

351C-2Vs and other 351M-400s do not have anything on those corners.

Now to further confuse the issue, there are two different 351C-4V open chamber heads. The late 71 and 72 have large valves, while the 73 and 74 have small valves.


Hope this helps you Catz!

 

[Logan]

Cougrrcj,

Good lesson! You hands typed everything my brain my trying to remember...

 

[Ray]

Thats good info THX I also believe some 2V heads did have a 2 in the same location.My Cleveland car is not here for me to double check but I'm sure it has the 2.I think the later "M" heads did not stipulate.Thanks though for the history lesson.

 

[Cougrrcj]

Ray,

Some more info on 351CJs... Not all CJs had chrome air cleaner lids. It depends on when it was built. My 'Alpha' was built in December of 72 and has a chrome lid, while my 'Beta' was built in January 73 and has a plain lid. You can cross check this with the Mustang people, but supposedly as of Jan 1, 73 there were no more chrome lids.

Also, the lids themselves are different from year to year. Put a 71-2 next to a early 73 and you'll see the difference. Gotta be sharp to notice, but the 71-2 has a half-round 'ridge' about 2" out from the wingnut while the 73 is flat. Also, the lid decal changed somewhere along the way. My Alpha 73 has a chrome lid, like I said, but a different decal than the 71-2 decal. No one repops the correct decal. I had to show Osborne my original lid with its original sticker before they'd believe me! They won't make the correct sticker unless they have a market for it, and from what they tell me, I'm the only one who noticed the discrepancy.

BTW, I haven't had a 351C-2V head around here in years so I couldn't say for sure or not whether they had a '2' cast in them. I don't think that 351M-400s had any numbers on them at all.

 

[modifiedmark]

jdalu
I hope this helps, I was reading a book called Mercury Muscle Cars and in the Cougar section it touched on hood pins being options only on 428 ram air cars. This means that Eliminators were not exclusive to the hood pin option the way I read it and I have seen a XR7 ram air car with hood pins.

 

[Paul G.]

Hood pins, stripes scoops and such

Mark,
I have personally seen more than one original 428 XR7 Cougar with the hood pins. There is a photo of one in an ad for the 69's made by Mercury. I have seen the ad on a number websites, as well as in a couple of books. So, I believe your assertion is correct, a 428 non Eliminator could have had the hood pins as well as an Eliminator. I have also seen a handful of 351 Cougars with the original hood stripe, but never one with the pins. I believe that the scoop and stripe were an option on the 351's, only if your ordered the 4V motor and the performance group option. My car is an original performance group 351 4V XR7 convertible. The second owner (who I know personally ) claims that it had the 351 stripe and scoop when he bought it back in the early 70's I cannot however verify this as I have not yet purchased an Eminger or Marti report. When I did the resto, I put the stripe and scoop back on and it looks pretty sharp. ( I just posted a photo on the pictures page) I did not add the pins because I felt that they were not appropriate for my car. For Joe, the bottom line is, do whetever the heck you want, it's your car.
Paul G.

 

[Ray]

69 CJ wpins

Theres a 69 XR7 CJ car here w/scoop/wing/stripe and pins and owner claims its all stock.The pins are more show than go and I won't use em.My 390 Xr7 had em at one time but I prefer the claen look without them.They were available as a dealer option and its possible that all were installed at dealer and not on factory lines.The wings I believe were at least.Catz yaz

 

[Cougrrcj]

Dealer installed options

Back in the old days, many dealers installed dress-up items meant to enhance a car's image and get a quick sale. Many DSOs also did the same sort of thing on their own (i.e. Twister Specials, High Country Special, California Special (Mustangs and Torinos mostly) then there were the Yenko Camaros (dealer prepped specials) et al, not to mention the corporate-approved Boss 429 operation at Kar Kraft. Many dealers would contact an outside vendor and install body side mouldings, 'Targa' vinyl tops, sunroofs, trunk-mounted luggage racks, and stripe packages. The original purchaser of the car may be correct in that was the way he bought the car from the dealer, but the way the factory produced it may be different all together.

What I am getting at is it wouldn't surprise me one bit that a dealer or two (or more) out there installed hood pins in cars that didn't come with them. If you like 'em, use 'em. If you don't , don't.

Other 'personal' touches.

Both of my Cats have had painted Magnum 500s on them at one time or another. Alpha had 14x7s and Beta has 14x6s. Can I help it if Mercury didn't offer a style steel wheel on 73s? (XR-7 wheelcovers for 73s are ugly in my opinion.) Alpha most recently (well, when it was still driveable) had 'period' 14x7 aluminum slots on it. I have since sold those off (well, they were on my car-hauling trailer when I sold it.) Now I don't know what wheels and tires to put on it if I ever get the darn thing back together.

 

[dalerivers]

Excellent info there Cougrrcj...but now I have a question for you. Which heads make for a better rebuild, the open chamber or closed chamber heads? Just curious...

Thanks

Dale