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Discussion Starter #1
What exactly is the diference between the heads on a 2v and 4v 351W. Is it the number of valves on each cylinder?
 

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The number of valves is the same, 2 valves per cylinder. I think the valves on the 4V may be bigger, but I really don't know(I prefer the 351 cleveland).
 

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The heads on the 2V and 4V windsor are the same. It's the intake/carb that's different.

The engine with different 2V/4V heads it the 351C.
 

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as far as i know, they are pretty much the same. i am not aware of any differences between them. same 184 intake and 153 ( ? ) exhaust valves in them and same 59 cc chambers. the difference in the engines was a higher compression ratio in the 4v engine sue to flat top pistons. 10.25 i think . 9.5 for the 2bbl one. heres a site for info on heads and cams for Fords.. i like it. http://www.pinn.net/~nascar/fordhead.htm
 

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All windsor heads are NOT the same!!! Its late, my memory is not as good as it should be,( I dont remember what I had for breakfast this morning) but the generalitys are this.

The early 69-70 4 bbl heads had the largest valves and ports of any of them and they were not drilled for the thermoactor. I dont remember chamber sizes but they were larger than 59cc. 64 if I remember right. As the years went on the ports got smaller first and then the valve sizes dropped also. The early 4bbl heads had bigger ports than the 2 bbls did, but later in the mid 80's I think they were the same except for the HO's.

If you really want the details I will get them for you. Let me say though as a real Ford fan I cannot stand any factory small block head for any semi serious performance work. The early 4bbls heads with extensive port and machine work can put up some serious hp#, but in all practacality the money would still be better spent on some good aftermarket heads. Belive me I have run them both. mm
 

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oops, i was referring to the 69 and 70 heads only... if i am wrong about those being the same ooops. i know the later ones got sucky as the years went on.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Mark, thats what I thought, and exactly how i feel. What do you think would be a good aftermarket head. I was looking at the gt40 heads, but i am kind of weary of putting a 302 head on my 351(probably would be great for my 302 bronco though). So i'm not sure. I am definatley looking for street/track performance, but dont know where to go as far as the heads go. I'v already got my cam (performer RPM- 224 intake 234 exhaust @ .050 duration), and intake worked out (performer RPM non egr), as well as the headers and dual exhaust and the 600 cfm carb is being rebuilt as I type this. Oh and I plan on using a summit stroker crank-anyone used one of these before? Thanks for your help...again. Oh and any advice for my engine build-up would be appreciated.
 

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Well since you asked for my opinon. I guess it depends on how much you want to spend and how much you look to get out of it. What summit stroker crank are you talking about? I assume its probably a 3.850 393 crank.

If so, thats a good choice and have been thinking about one myself. I did have a 377 stroker windsor once. I am a circle track guy myself so someone else might be better at cam selection than me although the performer rpm sounds like it might be good.

Ok heads, this is where you ask how much can you spend. I would guess the Eldebrock heads would match what your doing pretty good. Lets see a stroker motor and 302 heads (gt40's), Ha Ha Ha!!! No way would I go for that. I would think that the AFR's would be a good head if you can afford them. Otherwise for less money and cast iron durability I would choose the World products head. But for max performance they at least need the ports polished up some before you use them. I am not really a aluminum head fan unless you really need the weight reduction.

Oh and as soon as you get your carb back, sell it and put the money on a bigger carb. A 600 is too small. A 750 is not too much for a healthy 351 and may even be a little small for a 393. I would stay away from 850's as the bigger throttle plates hurt the bottom end. Ok that a few of my thoughts. mm
 

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last time i checked the gt40 heads come with 7/16 inch bolt holes, 351s have 1/2 inch, that could be a problem. i am building a very similar engine, and im thinking about going with the AFR 165cc heads, just because a few guys who i've taked to say they make more power than the edelbrocks without killing the bottom end, they also come fully cnc ported. the only drawbacks are that they are more expensive ($1325 vs. $1100 for most others) and its hard to find a place that sells them.
 

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mautemps said:
Mark, thats what I thought, and exactly how i feel. What do you think would be a good aftermarket head. I was looking at the gt40 heads, but i am kind of weary of putting a 302 head on my 351(probably would be great for my 302 bronco though). So i'm not sure. I am definatley looking for street/track performance, but dont know where to go as far as the heads go. I'v already got my cam (performer RPM- 224 intake 234 exhaust @ .050 duration), and intake worked out (performer RPM non egr), as well as the headers and dual exhaust and the 600 cfm carb is being rebuilt as I type this. Oh and I plan on using a summit stroker crank-anyone used one of these before? Thanks for your help...again. Oh and any advice for my engine build-up would be appreciated.
All of the Fox body guys say either Edelbrock Performer RPM or Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads. The TFs apparently have better high end than the Edelbrocks.

That Edelbrock performer RPM cam...did that install with the stock valvetrain? I've been wanting to swap up to the RPM series from the performer series.

From what I've seen in Desktop Dyno 2000, and heard from other people, the perf RPM intake/cam/heads will make 400+flywheel hp!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the info mark, and everyone else. Yes I was referring to the summit 393 crannk, I thought that would be a good choice. Now Are you talking about the Windsor Jr 58cc chamber heads? And what about the Sr. Also can I use this on my 302 EFI in my bronco? I would go that route. To be honest. I'll end up dropping about $2000 or more on the engine, including machine work. And i'll take your suggestion on the carb. I was originall going to just throw a 4v manifold on with that carb, but since I found a knocking noise, I decided if I was to rebuild, I'd do it right the first time.
thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #12
oh and will the valves clear the pistons with my setup, or is that something I have to take into account?
 

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No I wasnt talking windsor jr's (302 heads) and 58cc would probably get compression real high in a hurry with that stroker crank. Seniors are the way to go except they are now called Roush heads. Just make sure you remember to get that rotating assembly balanced. I dont know what the valve lift is with that cam, but piston to valve clearance should always be checked.

I think you will be way over your 2k before your done though going that route. Add it up, 500 for the crank, 150 to balance it, 800-1000 for the heads. This is whats holding me back right now.

I'm also thinking that unless you already have the performer rpm stuff bought that you might rethink that and maybe just go with the performer cam and intake. The rpm stuff is great but you end up losing enough low end that it maynot run quite like you would like unless you get a higher stall converter and some lower rear gears to make up for it. Its a never ending battle isnt it.

Just something to think about. mm
 

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Thought I would throw my 2cts in here. I have a 351w with the edelbrocks performer cam and intake and love the way it works I also put in a higher stall convertor from TCI 1000 over stock are so. I'm currentyl looking for new heads and will possibly go with the AFR 185'S. I asked AFR about the piston to valve clearance issue for me with big 2.02Intake and 1.6E valve and been told they should work with no need to get new pistons(I have stock flat top pistons w/4 valve reliefs).

rbaney
 

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I am running the world products sr.'s they have a 64cc chamber and the stock heads have a 59cc chamber which lowers the compression. When I built my motor I used .030 over .150 dome pistons to achieve a 10.5 compression ratio(357w). As far as my cam I went slightly more than a performer rpm make by ford motorsports. She runs great but cold idle sucks and it drinks gas for a driver (12mpg). To improve Idle quality I went with variable duration lifters. They work great when the motor is warm but when the engine is cold they do not provide the variable function that makes it idle smooth when warm so I need to keep the rpms up above 1500 to keep it running til the oil starts warming up enough to let the cat idle down to 700 with a lil lump. Its a little bit aggrevating sometimes to keep it running when cold but its very drivable on the street, just beware if you go to radical it might take some of the enjoyment out of the car.
John
wvcat
 

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John, thanks for jarring my memory. I bought my SR's back in 90 so its been awhile ago. Your right, I do remember now having to mill the heads down. My 377 ended up a true 13.8-1 compression motor. Don't try this at home kids. Used to run VP 114 in it and don't want to think what it cost today.

The world products heads have a real thick deck on them so milling the piss out of them is no problem, but remember that increasing the stroke will change the compression ratio also so the 64cc chamber may not need changed much with a 3.850 stroke crank when keeping the compression at a street friendly level. mm
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Ok, thaat would make sense. I havent purchased any of my engine parts yet, except for the carb, and I paid 40 for that. So I think IO'll take your advice and go with the performer series, and the Sr. heads. I still need to figure out a cam though. Can I get away with the pistons and bearings and rings, that my machine guy would throw in, or should I get my own rebuild kit, like a summit or something? I know for 600 bucks, he would rebuild the short block with remanufactured parts, but I think the only thing I was going to replace was the crank.
 

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No Problem MM I also did a little pocket work and port matching when I installed mine, as a coincidence I built my motor about the same time you did. Whatever exzhaust you run with your world sr heads may interfere with changing the plugs so I stronly recomend that you check clearences before you install everything in the car, I had to grind down a cheapo motorcycle type socket to fit mine with hooker comp headers, they changed the angle of the plugs to compliment the heart shaped combustion chambers.
Good Luck
John
wvcat
 

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John, there you go again jarring my memory back into the present. I also have a ground down spark plug socket in my toolbox. Now I remember why I have it!!! :D Like I said I think the SR's have been replaced with the new Roush heads and they changed things around on them. I havent looked at them that closely yet though. I didn't think that much about the header clearence at that time because I was running some god awfull huge 180 degree circle track headers at the time and my luck with circle track headers were they never fit in the chassis so after being very happy that they at least fit into the car, grinding down a socket was no big deal!!

mautemps, kits are useally cheaper, but thats where you can useally find them throwing in the chaep parts. Thats not set in stone though, just make sure of what your getting. Some places wont let you substitute parts though and you will need 302 pistons in your kit to go along with the 393 crank. mm
 

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Discussion Starter #20
302 pistons? Why would I need to do that? I cant use the same size pistons I have now?
 
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