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Discussion Starter #1
Finally got time to do some serious measuring under my 69 today to see how feasable it is to put the narrowed rear under it. It should work out ok but the tire selection is going to be severly limited as most are too big in dia to fit in the outside wheel opening.

Since I have 215-70r-14 on it now I measured off them and they are supposed to be like 25.9" in dia. The smallest M/T sportsmans are 29" dia and guess what the wheel opening is? thats right real close to 29". Looks like I may have to modify the bottems of the front and rear of it. Looks like I can just cut out a sorta pie shape piece behind the wheel well lip and just push it back and reweld it to open it up like .75-1" and be fine with out changing the stock look much at all.

The tires I have picked are M/T sportsman 29/15.5-15. Right at 13'' tread and a 15" section with. like I said its the shortest I have found available. A friend says to stay away from the M/t's as they will get you killed if it rains, and reccomended the Pro Trac's from Coker. Problem is the shortest they list is almost 33" dia. Oh well I am carefull in the rain anyway. Hoosier has some nice looking radials in the size I want, but VERY pricey.


With this setup I will have to narrow the frame like 4" on each side and it looks like I can just weld on to the torque boxes and extend them out, although am considering a brace between them with a built in driveshaft loop for extra support. Along with some frame connectors to the front subframe and some extra platint up there. Will make my own rear frame rails out of 2x3 and will take some doing with all the angles needed. Probably be 7 pieces when done, but that includes the outward angle needed to come out over the rear of the spring for the shackle to mount to. Looks like I will stay with the stock outer wheel houses and either extend the inners or fabricate new inners. Looks like the rear seat will have to be narrowed some along with some mods to the inner quarter upolstery. But souldnt be prohivitive. How much narrower is a convert rear seat??

Looks like the stock gas tank can be used but will be a close fit. Exhaust pipes will have to snake through between the spring and frame right behind the rear axle and exit on the outside of the frame. Again no big deal.
I talked to CougarAOD and after his reccomendations I belive a AOD behind a 460 is not in my best intrest, so a c-6 it will be with the option down the road to add a Gear Vendors to it.

I will most definatly be going with the MustangII front end set up. Neatest thing since sliced bread. I posted before about the RC Motorsports setup, but no one else had any opinions on it??

I now have 3 differnt cars to check out all within 4 hrs of the house. Just waitng to be contacted with a little more info on them. One sounds very promising, a 69 from Nevada suppose to be very solid.

After the car is found the next thing is to find the donor car for the 460- C-6 and hopefully a big brg 9". If lucky maybe find a running rust bucket LTD wagon or such for a little scratch.

Anyone have any info for some 15x12 wheels? All I can find are Centerline Convo pros or Weld prostars. Now I like the looks of both but would prefer Chrome over aluminum for easier maitinance. Any Ideas? Well I'm done rambling just a little excited at the prospect of a new project like always, but will get halfway through it and will wonder what the hell was I thinking. ;) mm
 

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I think the Convos would look sweet on a cougar. I have seen them on mustangs.

Keep me posted on the progress once you find your project car. Post some pics if you can. I am interested in learning welding/fabrication to do the same kind of stuff myself. The problem is I dont have much spare time to take a local college class. Maybe someday when the kids get older and the wife decides to go back to work. (yeah, right!)
You sound like you know how to do all of that stuff. Whats the best way to learn welding and fabrication?

Good luck in finding a good deal on the cougar.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I really like the look of the convos also, just not into constant cleaning.

If you want to learn check out some welding supply shops in the area. Ask them if they ever have any seminars, as alot do from time to time. At least around here anyway. Other than that its just having the equipment and practicing with it. Even if you don't have a big shop with these newer 110v mig welders your pretty much set. A oxy - cet torch setup is a nice thing to have along with a elec chop saw. Get a few things and some scrap iron and go at it. Its really like carpentry with out the nails!!

I myself am looking to buy a new welder very soon. I just missed out on a deal while I was working nights as TSC had 175 amp 220v machines on sale for $580. When I was racing a single friend (who is a welder by trade) bought a new one and brought it over to my garage because he didnt have a place to use it. So I didnt need to buy one till he finally got married, bought a house with a garage and there went my (his) welder. So it's time to cough it up and get my own. I have a very good stick welder with a high freq box that will to TIG but I havent got a tig rig picked up yet so I'll just get a mig for now. At least if I ever get a TIG rig my buddy is certified in it to teach me how to do it right. mm
 

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whats the difference between TIG/MIG welding. ? Looks like I need to get a book on welding first. :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hard for me to explain properly. A mig feeds the welding wire from a roll right out the end of the mig gun. Very easy to use. A tig torch uses a tungston tip and a shielding gas and the filler wire is feed to it by hand. And of course the regular stick welder holds a welding rod in the stinger and welds from the rod. mm
 

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measure

29" should fit with only trimming front of wheel well. i ran 28 1/2's on mine with no trimming although there was only space for my finger in the front and i have small fingers.
 

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free c-6

Mark I got a C-6 out of that 79 mark IV that we took the 460 out of for the dump truck.What good stuff was leftI sold some to some guys at-Linconson line -That would be a car to look for we got ours for 800.00 yo get the460-C-6-power window motors trunk locks door locks ect, worth a look Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Your right Dan, thats exactly what I was talking about in getting a donor car and the Lincoln would be perfect also. So many little things come with a complete car like that, drive shaft and yokes etc. If I come up without a trans I will give you a shout you are within reasonable driving distance. mm
 

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MM,

I've got a disc brake rear (including discs , calipers and e-brake cables) from my old 77 Country Squire laying around that I'd be willing to donate to the cause. Just get it out of my garage! Come and get it! I'm on the far southwest side of Cleveland, just a couple miles from a turnpike exit (Grafton) If you're going to pick up Dan's donor car, I'm on the way!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks CJ, but Dan just has a trans from the donor car. If I dont find what I need around here I may take a road trip. Or meet up if you guys are going to the Columbus fall swap. I hope to meet up with you guys anyway since it didnt work out this spring.

It kinda took me by surprise when you said the wagon rear was a disk brake unit, but I guess the Mark IV's had them back then so why not the wagon.

I really wasnt looking to do a disk brake rear but something like that could change my mind. mm
 

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Hey Mark....do you have any interest in a good complete 429/C6 combo (in fact they are still connected together) and I have the drive shaft and yokes as well? They are from a 1970 or 71 Montego and was running when pulled a couple of years ago. The car was still running strong but the body was falling apart around it. I am a long way from you but don't think it would be to expensive to ship by ground transport.

Let me know...

Dale
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Dale I would be maybe. I really just starting to look around and definatly want a car in the garage to put it in first. I'm still waiting for some callbacks on a couple cars. I went to a local show today and a guy told me that a friend of his just picked up a 70 a couple weeks ago. Turns out it was the same 70 I called about and was sold the day before. So there it is I missed a good deal by a day.

LtL freight wouldnt be too bad to ship a motor and trans, just depends on what you need to get for it. Those early 429's were real horses. mm
 

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well then Mark if thats the case, there is a 68 Lincoln MarkIII at the junkyard still with a 460 in it..... heads have different casting numbers, one is a 68 head, and one is a 69 head. looked it up too.... 10.5 Compression and 365 horse in stock form..... if i built up a 460, id start with this one.....
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Like I said Steve, to pay the freight it would need to be an awfully cheap engine. I'm sure one will show up around here. I sicked some dogs out today after one. mm
 

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When I build my next 460 the parts I plan to use are a 72 and up block, with pre 72 heads. The 68-70 block has a 10.300 deck height, the 70 1/2-71 blocks are 10.310 deck height and the 72 and up blocks are 10.322. After market pistons like KB's are designed to be closer to the deck. With the early block, KB says there isn't enough material to machine the decks without having the piston come abouve the deck. Although, I plan to set-up my 460 with a positive deck clearance, to maximise the quench effect with a .035 piston to head clearance. Where as the 68-70 1/2 460 had .050 clearance--which was really good for a stock motor--to bad they ruined it.
I plan to use the pre-72 cylinder head because they have a closed chamber with a quench area---much better chamber. The 72 and up head uses a fully open chamber just like the Cleveland 2v and later 4v motors, which is prone to detonation. Compression should be controlled with a dish that has the same shape as the chamber in the head to maximise the quench area. Several reasons I like the KB piston, it isn't forged, so it has a more quiet operation on a daily basis. Has a correctly shaped dish that doesn't overlap into the quench area of the head, and they are priced very well.
Either way, if you have to choose between a late 460 with open chambers, or an early 460 with a shorter deck, I'd definitly go for the shorter deck with quench heads.
 

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ya know... i can probably get ahold of the heads if you want.. like i said, ones a 69 head and the other is a 68 head... if you want them i can pick them up.... lemme know soon, they are at a Junkyard and the car has been there a while. then again, a 69 Montego has been in there for 3 months or so now...
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks for the info Mark, I printed it out for future referance. I really know little about the big blocks. Stock car guys like me always cringed at the thought of all that weight hanging over the front wheels.

I have run the hyperutectic pistons before though (sb Fords and Chevys) ,KB's and Silvolites with no problems at all with them.

I'm not to worried about what heads I end up with at first and as much as I dont like aluminum heads,(for the street) a set of Eldebrocks would be nice to take some nose weight out of it. mm
 
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