[Neal_DePape]

Okay guys, I found a decent deal on a GT40P 302 long block. This is what came in a 98+ Mercury Mountaineer or Ford Explorer. Apparently the GT40P is the latest and greatest iron head from Ford for performance and it flows really well despite having small valves. I've read of a number of people using these heads for high performance Mustangs, etc. So I thought the long block would be a good starting point for a new engine in my Cougar.

So, my plan is yank the worn 302 out of my Mercury, slap a Road Demon carb and a Performer RPM on the new 302 and drop it in with an AOD. Maybe a new cam, we'll see how the $$$ holds up.

This sounds too easy, :thinkuh: what am I missing? Does anybody know of any gotchas involved with converting the FI motor to carb? This is just a long block, no intake or other hardware at all. Will I be able to use a 68 era distributor, oil pan, power steering pump mounts, alternator mounts? I know some of you have AODs in your cars, what did you do for shifters?

Thanks!:thinkuh:

 

[Cougrrcj]

early/late 302/5.0 interchange

OK, first of all, the newer 5.0s use a one-piece rear main seal so the oils pans are different in this area.

The distributors will be slightly different since the 5.0 uses a roller cam and therefore a different gear for the distributor.

Depending on what cam you intend on using, you'll have to remember that this is a roller cam engine to begin with. You'll also have to watch the firing order depending on which 5.0 cam you use.

You didn't say what year the AOD is you'll be using. The AODs from 92 and up (I think) are electronically controlled, necessitating a computer from the appropriate car/engine. Earlier AODs need a throttle position rod or cable to operate correctly instead of the usual downshift rod that is used in our Classic Cats. The shift lever in the trans must also be matched to whatever shifter you'll be using. Ask CougarAOD for all of the AOD tranny particulars. He's the guy to ask about this.

Brackets and mounts for your accessories should bolt right up to the 5.0.

Oh, watch your belt system. Serpentine belt systems have a different water pump than V-belt cars due to the direction of rotation of the pump.

 

[wvcat]

swap

I installed a 85 302 in place of my 5.0 fi in my work truck. I didn't have too many troubles but you will have to change the timing chain cover to match the old style water pump if you are going to go with the cougar acc setup.
I also did the AOD swap on my cat, with advice from Mark. Here's the scoop!!!
The AOD swap wasn't to bad. There are some obstacles but they are easy to overcome. The biggest one is the crossmember, you will need a new one. The are available from windsor fox or from Mark Piechowski but beware they may not work with your current exhaust. I tried one from Mark and it would not clear my Hooker headers and pipes. I made one, it was a piece of cake. The rest is a bolt in really. First get a trans thats from an 89 or
newer 5.0 mustang, I've been told they have a better lube circut, improved clutches and the right lever to work with our shifters. You will need the trans, converter, block plate & inspection cover, and yoke. The trans bolts right up. one of the trans lines from an FMX lines up perfect but the other is way off. I picked up a set out of the boneyard from a newer style tbird and cut the ends off by the radiator and installed a cooler with hoses conecting it. I didn't hook up my radiator cooler because it had been unhooked for years and I figured it was dirty inside. (I had a 4sp in there but it was a factory FMX car) Working your way back the next situation I came across was the starter nose, it fits but the top hole will be threaded on the trans and the starter, I drilled the threads out
of the starter and used it with no problems. Next thing to hook up is the drive shaft mine worked but I had already changed the yoke for the 4 sp swap, the AOD and 4sp yokes have the same splines. The FMX is different. There is some consideration on the speedometer. The AOD uses an electronic speedo that comes right out and your stock one fits the hole but the teeth on the gear is wrong. I went to the ford dealer and picked up a 21 tooth
speedo gear for six bucks to fit a 5.0 mustang and no problems. I am told that if you have a choice to get a trans that comes out of a mustang with 3:23 or lower rear end gears because the use a different gear on the trans shaft (7 or 8 teeth are the choices) thats not replacable without a complete teardown of the trans and a replacment shaft. The next thing to tackle is the shift nkage. Before installing the trans you need to pull the selector shaft out and rotate it 180 degrees. I was told that my stack
linkage rod would work but when I went to install it it was too short. The thing is I'm not sure that I was trying my stock one or one from another vehicle that was laying around the garage...duh I didn't put it in a safe place when I removed my FMX. Anyway it works out that I have park where its supposed to be and low in the trans shows 2nd on the shifter but it doesn't create a problem and looks stock. One more easy project, the
throttle cable. I picked up a lokar cable from a speed shop for 69.95, it was a piece of cake to install but I messed with the adjustment for a while after I started driving the car to get it the way I wanted it. The only other thing I did was install a shift kit and a drain plug on the pan. I'm even using the stock converter. I used the bauman shift kit and it was easy to install. The car runs great and getts a whopping 14 MPG on the highway.........lol Of course I am running alot of cam and 3:73's and my motor would prefer a set of 4:11's. The only downside I can speak of is the inherent quality of an AOD to be clunky for the lack of a better term when goin into OD. This is magnified in my car due to the cam, when it hits OD under part throttle it drops the engine below its power band and it luggs. Under moderate acceleration its not noticable and your results may be different. I have never had my car fast enough for a full throttle AOD shift but it chirps when it hit drive a full throttle, thats probably around the 60-70mph range. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask, I'll be glad to help you or take pic of mine. Heres a couple sites to check out.
http://www.baumannengineering.com/aboutbe.htm
http://www.windsor-fox.com/
Good Luck
John

 

[modifiedmark]

You WILL have to change the front engine cover. The newer ones have no provision for a mech fuel pump. You will also have to add the old style fuel pump eccentric. Also remember that 82 and newer 302's have a 50 oz balance instead of the older style 28 oz. So no mix and matching new and old style balancers and flywheels.mm

 

[Neal_DePape]

Thanks!

Okay, I knew there was more to this than I saw at the first glance. Maybe I'll swap in the 5.0L and leave the C4 for now and keep it a little simpler (and cheaper of course.)

Thanks for all the help!

 

[modifiedmark]

Neal, you dont say what a decent deal is but, although the gt40 heads are pretty good for a 302 ( I wouldnt have them on a 351) the only real advantage of the motor you talk of is the roller cam block. Set down and do some math and see how your deal works out against rebuilding what you got with a set of aftermarket heads and such compared to your decent deal on the late model motor. Depending on what you have to give for the gt40 motor and all the changes involved you might be better of using what you have. mm

 

[Cougrrcj]

Speedo gearing

I have touched on this topic before about the two different drive gears for the output shaft. This goes for almost all trannies. You have either seven or eight teeth on the drive gear. Then you have to determine the correct driven gear. When changing rear ends (or tire size) it is best to get a baseline speedo error before you do the swap, then get the appropriate gears that best match what you intend to do with the car. Sometimes you gotta bite the bullet and change the drive gear on the output shaft. Or....

Oh, there is one other way to correct a speedo error if you can't get the right gears for your speedo. Most tranny shops can either supply you with or direct you toward an aftermarket gear box that would go somewhere on your speedo cable (two piece cable required now). My old Camaro had a .877 correction factor box in it when I bought it. I don't know about the cost of these units. Mine was made by stewart-Warner, if I remember correctly.

Oh, BTW, the electronic speedometer came about in 1990 I think. At least in my 89 Marquis it is a 'normal' cable and in the wife's old 90 Marquis it was electric. The speedo gearing is still the same. It just uses wires instead of a cable. My 89 came with 3.08s and the wife's 90 had 2.73s. I put in a set of 3.55s (posi) into my 89. It flat-out honks now! I have a selection of the driven gears laying around. My buddy who works at a Ford dealership in the Parts Dept keeps me happy!

MM,
Why wouldn't you want the GT40 heads on a 351? That's what the 90s Lightnings had on their 351s! Since I put a Lightning long block into my 89 Grand Marquis, let me tell you what they do! They work just fine!!!

 

[modifiedmark]

Yeah there probably the best ford production heads, and work very well on 302's but not compared to a set of darts, eldebrocks, AFR's etc especially on 351's or above. I guess my point was missed, I was basing my comment on assuming a large sum of money spent on a new long block compared to spending money on rebuilding the original motor and spending the extra money saved on a really good set of heads. I also forget just because I do my own motors and save the labor cost, that not everone else can do that. You may also think the gt40's do fine in your LTD and they probably do, but I bet if you ever tried a set of the forementioned aftermarket heads you may change your mind. mm

 

[Neal_DePape]

GT40P & AOD deal

Well, the deal I was offered was for a 5.0L long block at $1500 & an AOD for $725, including core charges. The long block is rebuilt to production specs for a 98+ Mercury Mountaineer/Ford Explorer and comes with GT40P heads. Rated at 215 hp/288 ft lbs in factory tune. I'm pretty sure the stock Explorer cam will blow, but I'm willing to put up with it for now.

My 68 block has been rebuilt once and was bored 30 over then, so it probably doesn't have enough meat for another rebuild. So at roughly $200 for a used block & crank, $800 for a set of aftermarket iron heads, I'm within $500 of the rebuilt GT40P engine, without any pistons, cam, lifters, etc. Not to mention machine work and assembly.

So it seems like a pretty good deal to me? I don't know about the AOD, but I'm likely to wait on that and just run the C4 until I save up some more cash.

 

[wvcat]

5.0 & AOD

Hey Neal for that kind of money you should be able to go to a junk yard and get a low mile 5.0 & AOD combo from a late model stang, then take the money left over and buy the rechromed bumpers you've been wanting and the rechromed dash or set of wheels....well maybe not but I just think someones charging a little on the high side for what your getting I didn't mean to scare you off on the trans with my earlier post it wasn't really that difficult.
John

 

[modifiedmark]

Neal, just because its been .030 dosent mean its junk!! Thats why they make.040 and larger pistons. mm