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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,
I have been struggling with keeping my 68 XR7 cool this summer. It has a 20" radiator in it and I put the A.C. back in the car last year. Seems it does really need the 24" so I bought a Champion Aluminum Radiator(CC338) and plan on running the fixed fan(Flexlite) for now to see if it is enough before jumping into the electric fans.
Question I have is: This is an automatic (C4) and has lines running to the radiator for transmission cooling. I am unsure about removing these lines and if there is a "significant" amount of trans fluid that will be in the radiator. Also wondering if I need to "cap" the line ends while removing old radiator and installing new?? I guess if anyone has been down this road and has any helpful hints about the change out of the radiator, Please fill me in...
I bought the new mounts, rubbers for the mounts, new shroud and a couple of bottles of coolant. Don't know if the transmission will need fluid? I have about a quart that I have used to fill the power steering after a hose failure a few months ago.
Look forward to hearing from those that have already done this or have info that will help.
Thanks
Charlie
1968 XR7 302 Auto, P.S. A.C.
 

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May want to check the height measurement on the Champion compared to stock,.... if too tall, you will not be able to use the rubber isolators and it may dent your hood when closed.
 

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I recently changed my 24" radiator and the trans lines just leaked a few drops when disconnected. The radiator itself did not
really leak any trans fluid.
 

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Put a pan under the lines when you disconnect them.

I installed a 24" radiator a few years ago, with a factory-type shroud and a later-model flex fan. I also installed a trans cooler from an early Probe, totally bypassing the cooler in the radiator. I have had no cooling problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Measurments look good for this being a good fit. Went out and double checked the overall measurements, it will be close to battery and lines from the condensor but still wiggle room. Height looks like it will be a match to the current radiator.
Glad to hear that the transmission lines will not be bleeders. Didn't know if I would see the transmission bleed out all its fluid while I fit the new radiator in place.
Now just waiting on Fed-Ex and UPS to come through with the parts. Looking like they won't be here until Tuesday. Downside of living on the East Coast and all the parts I buy seem to be on the West Coast.
Any other thoughts or tips still appreciated. This perfectly fine, no leak 20" will most likely be up for sale after fitment of the 24, if anyone is interested let me know. It appears to me to be a stock 20" black radiator with a new shroud.
Thanks to all who have responded!!
Charlie
 

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You will get less than a teaspoon out of the lines. Have some pieces of garbage bag and some rubber bands ready to put over the open lines and the fittings on the radiator to seal them off.

You must have a fan shroud. The Flex fans don't move much air. That might be most of your problem.

Electric fans require bigger than stock alternator if you plan to run them at the same time as the air conditioner. You are going to have less work, less expense, better reliability and better cooling by simply installing a stock clutch fan and shroud with your new Champion radiator.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
You will get less than a teaspoon out of the lines. Have some pieces of garbage bag and some rubber bands ready to put over the open lines and the fittings on the radiator to seal them off.

You must have a fan shroud. The Flex fans don't move much air. That might be most of your problem.

Electric fans require bigger than stock alternator if you plan to run them at the same time as the air conditioner. You are going to have less work, less expense, better reliability and better cooling by simply installing a stock clutch fan and shroud with your new Champion radiator.
I was considering running electrics in place of the fixed fan, seemed to be a bit morenthan I anticipated. They don't come with pick-ups, relays, etc. My knowledge on their set-up is nill. I had considered a clutch fan but have seen a lot of posts where others seem to have a lot of problems with them. I still have a stock 4 blade fan that came with the car, was thinking the flex fan with more blades would move more air at idle when it needs it most. Hoping to be able to get a good result with a fixed fan but if not will keep a clutch fan as my first step before electrics. Do you have an opinion on whether the flex fan or the stock 4 blade is the better choice? This would be an easy time to make a swap if needed. I will look into the clutch fan option. If you know of any good threads on the change over, please let me know. From what I have read, it seems like more than simply bolting it on in place of the fixed fan ( not familiar). Seems I am running into a lot of "firsts" with this car...
 

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The clutch fan moves about double the air as the four blade. The flex fan moves less than either. A 302 with factory air conditioning would come from the factory with a clutch fan, fan shroud and 24" 2 core radiator.
 

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The stock 4 blade non air fan will never cut it. You will want to go with a 6-7 blade fan. With or w/o fan clutch is debatable. I personally run a 17" 6 blade rigid fan with a 28 degree pitch and no fan clutch here in FL with AC and I have no issues with overheating.

I also have the correct fan shroud and stock radiator w/ the tranny lines attached.

I opted for not running a fan clutch as it is one more part that can fail. The draw back to my fan setup is the small loss of horsepower due to my fan running fulltime w/ the engine.
 

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My 24 inch Champion radiator is on the way, too. I will take some pictures, as I will have the engine out when I install it..
 

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I should clear up my statement about using a flex fan. The fan I am using came from a 79 Thunderbird with a 351M. located properly in the shroud opening, it does a good job of keeping my engine in the proper temperature range.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Everything ordered has arrived. The 3row 24" Champion aluminum radiator, new 24" shroud, lower mounts and rubber bits, upper mount ( chrome to blend in with radiator) and the rubber bits fornthe upper mount. Everything measures up right and all there is to do now is to get my hands dirty... Of course the weather here has dropped intomthe 60-70's which of course means the 20" will be fine now but it will be summer again soon and this time I will be ready. I think I will give it a go with the 6 blade flex-fan currently installed and see what happens, never know, maybe the extra row in the radiators larger size and aluminum construction may be the ticket. If not then it will be time to play the fan swap game. Hoping for the best but am also being realistically optomistic. Guess it is the only way to find out... I will keep you all posted, we tend to het what they cal "Indian Summer" during the fall and temps will rise back up into the 90's for a few days a couple of times before the winter sets in. Hoping that happens amd I can let it idle with the A.C. on in the hot weather. Next project... Change out the rear end gear ratio to something with a little bit more jump off the line. Thinking 3.25 or 3.50, may even go with a posi in the original 8" pumkin. Hoping that job will not be too pesty but that is a whole other post. I'll be sure and post before and after pictures. The 20" 2 row original style radiator is in perfect condition if anyone is looking for one and can include the shroud with it if needed, also have the 4 blade fan that came with this radiator.
Charlie
Charlie
 

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I bought a 24" three row Champion radiator for my blue GT-E to use until the stock radiator is restored. It does not cool any better than the restored stock radiator. No doubt it will probably cool better than a 40 year old 20" radiator, but you are going to ned a fan shroud.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I bought a 24" three row Champion radiator for my blue GT-E to use until the stock radiator is restored. It does not cool any better than the restored stock radiator. No doubt it will probably cool better than a 40 year old 20" radiator, but you are going to ned a fan shroud.
I got the radiator and did order a fan shroud for it along with all the mounting hardware. Of course now the weather here has gone cold and the little 20" is working fine since I don't need to run the A.C. I plan on doing the install this weekend and hope it will go smoothly, I do have the aftermarket A.C. parts to contend with and am hoping I have them placed properly for all to line up with the larger radiator. I may have to move the condensor over an inch if the lines off of it get in the way of the larger radiator being centered but should not be a problem. I'll be sure and get pictures up once the deed is done. Time will tell if the 6 bladed flex fan is up to the job, if not, I guess I will have another project...
Charlie
 

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Anymore, you can't touch a copper radiator for what you can get a new aluminum one for....I see some of the copper ones coming down in price a bit online, but they are still way more expensive. I guess somebody actually started recycling their beer cans into something good!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I couldn't believe the deal I got on this radiator. I found a shop on eBay that over-bought the 24" 3 rows and is selling them for $134 plus shipping that was only $25. Way too good a deal to pass up!! It arrived and is as advertised, brand new Champion with cap and all. In sealed factory box. Others prices were all over the place, some over $200! I feel lucky to have found this deal, I think they still have same deal running on eBay. It looks like only one but when I called they had a bunch of them
 

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that is a pretty good deal Charlie - rad prices went pretty high a few years ago - hugging the $300 mark for awhile now - NICE

I should grab one for the vert when I get around to doing anything on it
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Finally broke loose from the wifes never ending list of chores and made the swap to the new 3row 24" Champion. Had to spread the lower mounts a little for it to fit, top bracket is going to need a little stretch to make it work too. I'm thinking a mild change in the bends and use a thinner rubber on the verticle surfaces of the bracket. The Champion is a bit wider than original and does not have a "relief" for the upper bracket. Other than that it dropped right in, shroud hardware from old 20" worked to mount new 24" shroud. I hate mounting fans... There has to be an easier way than putting in on with radiator in place. At least the shroud can be unbolted and pushed back to give better access but still too tight for a socket. Open end wrench, 1/4 turn at a time... Hopefully I will have the mounting worked out and get her filled and tested. Happy with Champion Aluminum Radiator so far... Will know more after a slow ride through the center of town.
Charlie
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hi All,
I finally got eveything installed. The upper clamp/bracket was a tight fit, rubber had to be modified to fit the wider radiator. I was able to through bolt it, similar to the install of the old 20". I have a couple of photos as promised, I think it looks Great!! Been nothing but rain here all week, tomorrow is supposed to be nice so can road test it. It has shown to be running cooler in garage with A.C. running and it just idling. Hoping if it does well standing still it will do even better down the road.
Charlie
 
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