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Discussion Starter #1
With some of the toughest customers in Musclecar history bellying up to the bar for a showdown in the Factory Appearing Street Tire (FAST) series, I have been asking myself how a classic cougar might stack up.
Considering the opposition, Hemi Cudas, LS-whatever Chevelles, ZL1 Camaros, Stage V buicks, and of course the obligatory GTO, it doesn't seem like many ford products are stepping up to the plate with the FAST series.
With Bristol as my home track, I've seen them run some seriously fast times in the flesh. We're talking deep into the twelves and high 11's on street tires. G60s and 70s.
Even had my doors removed by a Hemi car once in bristol. Which is a bit of an honor in itself. Kind of like losing a fight to Tyson.:D
But, the idea of running a cougar has been in my head since the series started. But, in the absence of a classic strong ford contingent (I've only seen a handful of Fords and none in the top 10).
But, I'd love to bring the cougar into this series. I just don't want to show up and get blown off the track every time for lack of horsepower.
what do you think? waste of time?
 

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I agree with Shane, money talks...a CJ eliminator would probably hold it's own., but thats big jing. If you could find saya 71 and stuff a 460 in it and make it look like a 428CJ you could have a chance.
just my .02
P.S. i am considering a 460 swap into my 73...hehehe
 

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A 427 GTE clone would probably hold its own at those drags. With the much smaller body of the 68, and fiberglass hood/fenders/quarters, it could be very light as well. All of those, as far as I know, are available. It would be a neat car, but it would be a very expensive neat car.
 

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Heck, I'm just happy that my more 'stock' of my 73 CJs (BetaCat) will run 14.4s through stock dual exhaust, stock cast iron intake, stock CJ converter and with a set of 3.70 rear gears. There wasn't much on the street back 20 years ago that could touch it on street tires. Even BetaCat was approaching the limits of traction with its G-60-14 bias-ply tires at the track.

I'm hoping that I can keep AlphaCat slower than 12.00s since I really don't want to have to put in a rollbar in its mint (except for the mouse-eaten headliner) interior. A rollbar is required by IHRA for 11.49 and faster, and strongly suggested for 12- and under. For those of you who follow the Fun Ford racing program, AlphaCat will be at this years event at Norwalk, OH this July.
 

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nitrous is your friend! i will put my 70 351 4 spd 3.89 eliminator at the mid amercia shelby meet in tulsa, they put me up against 67 gt 500 shelby w 428 auto . i beat him by 3 car lengths on slicks and 250 horse nitrous. that shut up everybody. p. s i let him leave on me, then rolled out and ran him down . now what. whos next? geoff
 

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Discussion Starter #7
This series requires stock equipment only. Right down to the carb, breather, paint, bumpers, and exhaust manifolds.
I can trick a car out easily enough. But the rub comes in when you have to run stock parts only. I haven't seen a cougar that could stack up to the 450 horse chevelles. Or the ZL1 camaros.
maybe it's a waste of time and I should just pass it up. Or keep spectating.
 

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I guess that rules all of my Cats out. BetaCat has a 70-71 square-bore cast iron 351C-4V intake, 70-71 quench 4V heads, a factory Ford 66 GT 390 Holley carb, and the 3.70 rear gears are from a Ford van... They're all Ford factory parts, just not the right year or model.

When I bought BetaCat, it had a junkyard engine in it already, and it was wasted, so I scrounged up a four-bolt block, some 4V heads and intake, and made the best of it. I couldn't find a good 73 EGR spacer plate or good 73 spreadbore Motorcraft carb, and original 73 351C-4V camshafts weren't exactly growing on trees so I used as close as I could find, a Crane Econopower 260.

About a Cougar's only hope under the rules as they are is to have an all-original 428CJ, 427GTE, or a 71 429CJ.
 

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find a 70 with a 351 4 v cleavland, very competetive engine 4 bolt main ex manifolds etc. 300 hp clev is good, but i dont know about running against the other big blocks. i think your best bet is 428 cj
 

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Bob Goff (Georgia Cougar Club member) ran his 1970 big-block Eliminator in the Muscle Car Nationals competition at Silver Dollar Raceway in 2002.

In the two-day meet, he made 24 consecutive passes in his class, and easily won each.

He was only beaten in the title run, and that was virtually a photo-finish. I don't recall the car that finally beat him.
 

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This is an interesting conversation. Does anyone have a copy, or know where one could find a copy of the FAST rules? I would think you could create a stock appearing Cougar that could definately hold up. '68 GTE would be great....from what I know in FAST the cars don't have to have stock cranks, pistons, or heads I believe(anyone confirm this)? If so building a stroker 427 would work well. Then so would a 428CJ. Perhaps a stroker Cleveland? Just some thoughts.

-Random
 

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YEah the 450hp Chevelle is cool at the track but on the street it would get eaten alive by the likes of ZeroTolerance's 460 powerd 73 XR-7, TheRktmn's at and others. I am totally for the all stock appearing cars but i mean, are they gonna ask you to tear down your motor? I think not:)
So do what you have to win within reason thats the only rule i follow...:)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Here's where to find the guidelines.
http://www.geocities.com/fadrags/

Random valve covers pulls are done. So are volume checks. So stroking is out of the question. Only .030 overbore is allowed. No headers. No nitrous. Stock cams only. No roller rockers.
It's supposed to be an apples to apples type racing. Which I think is cool.
I believe you are right with the car selection. It would take a gte car with a 427 to even begin to be competitive.
While I'm a lifelong cleveland devotee, I don't really think a hydraulic cammed 4v car could really cut the mustard. I have a 70 that I race, so my only "correct" option would be a 428. Unfortunately, we didn't get crazy dual quad options (think hemi) and/or barely streetable all aluminum (camaro) big blocks (chevelle) right out of the box.
Short of kidnapping one of Royce's 427 cars (... a contemptible act...) I dont' think I can be competitive.
And I ain't spending 50 grand (?) on a car just so I can be sure of not rising above 17th place. However, there is a guy consistently placing in the top 10 with a 350SS (*shudder*) Nova. So, a small block car might be able to do something... I hate novas btw...
Maybe someone else will try to run a cougar competitively in the series.
As for me, I may get into the series, but with my car running corrected 12's with the cleveland, I don't have a prayer of winning. So, I may just have fun with it!
And if you run into a 450 horse 454 chevelle on the street, blowing his doors off would be pretty tough, and a major accomplishment. Like knocking out tyson. But then, if you have a cougar thats a "Lennox Lewis..."
 

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I'll check out the rules shortly. I must have been thinking of a different drag series when I was thinking strokers then. Seems I recall a series with stock appearing cars. Except with cams, heads, and strokers allowed. Dunno...maybe I was just day dreaming about a series like that :D. I doubt the stock hydraulic cammed cleveland could do much good in that quick of a series. Perhaps a '69 Elim with Boss 302? I know its a little on the heavy side....probably better suited for open track racing there though. Only other options I would think have been mentioned before. Except perhaps a 351W powered Cat....still an interesting concept.

-RM
 

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I did a little reading. We are talking the FAST series here. And not the FAST F/S(Factory Stock) series correct?

In the FAST rules, is says everything must appear stock. You have to use stock valve covers, intake, exhaust manifolds, heads, and carb(air cleaner assembly also). It also goes onto to mention "Internal engine modifications encouraged". I'd say that means stroker cranks, aftermarkets rods and pistons. The cam must "SOUND" stock. But doesn't have to be stock. Also I'm not seeing where it is outlawing roller rockers from being used either. Only that you cannot use valve cover spacers. Aftermarket ignition is allowed if the box is hidden out of sight. From where I read the FAST rules. It sounds like your only real limitations are the stock intake, carb, and exhaust mans...of course the tires too. Anyone given thought to a '67/8 390 GT car? They are less rare then the CJ's or GTE's. Plenty of FE stroker stuff...cams etc. Now in the factory stock, the rules are obviously alot more strict. Basically stock...bottom line, complete with engine tear downs. I could be reading it wrong though. That is how I interpreted it however.

-Random
 

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The answer here is simple NO! dont get me wrong I love ford (DUH! look how many i have) but ford abandoned racing and mercury all together when the end of the super wars were heating up after the 67 season. You would be better off finding a 427 comet or fairlane thunderbolt. As for the cougar in stock trim they were just to heavy compared to their mustang brethren and bowtie counterparts. with luxury comes a price. even if you take the weight of the cans for vacuum our heavy headlights and all the padding of the carperts and sound deading it is still heavier but add it all up and its like racing with me in the back seat. A stock cougar wont beat a stock mustang if everything is equal. nor will it beat a chevy in stock trim. I know it is a bitter pill to swallow but its just a fact. can they go faster? sure many people here have proven that but we are talking STOCK! keep this in mind when all you you start to lambaste me for such a hideous coment. even the stock cougar parts are heavier gauge in many cases then their mustang brethren after all we were an upgrade model. On the same token your not going to see any buick or oldsmobile in the same classes as the chevy or the mustang. But if we were to compare those like models in the same well then the story will change. In small block anyways and gearing otions i think we would hold our own. Would a 428 Eliminator beat a 455 GS. nope sorry it wouldnt there is a reason they are called hemi killers. But 351 to 350 a skylark to a cougar i feal that many times the cougar has come out on top. So in a stock series it is very hard to truly compare since a cougar will be matched and cars it shares the same class with but arent in the same class if you get my meaning. What does all this mean? not much in the grand scheme of things cougars are coooler and neater to drive. Buying one you never have to worry about 6 cylinders and most have ac and many other luxury components that make drivng a pleasure not a chore. let the other guys race i would rather pick up the chicks with the hot looking car (so to speak happily married for many years now but then again she did love the cougar!) keep in mind were just cooler and leave it at that. :D
 

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The Boss 302 would not be competitive with exhaust manifolds in place.

The cars with really good heads work best in the FAST series from my limited reading of magazine articles on the subject. It seems a '71 Cougar with a 429 stroked to the limit (514 CI?) might be a good recipe. I can't play the FAST game, way too much money is involved in becoming competitive. The Factory Stock drags are easier for me and the 428 CJ is very competitive there. No way I am ever going to catch the Hemi's but I am faster than most of the 440's and all the GS Buicks (not the GSX's though...).
 

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It sounds like you have a lot of "give", in the area of internal engine parts. Just like what Royce said, just find a big block engine and just bore and stroke the **** out of it. But like what everyone else said about the Cougars, they are just too damn heavy. Ford made them sport luxury cars. I guess you need to find a Thunderbolt or a Galaxie with a 427 Cammer in her. If you do get your Cougar hopped up and decide to race it in the fast catergory, kick GM and Chryslers, A#%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHHAHA
 

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MeanMerc68 said:
It sounds like you have a lot of "give", in the area of internal engine parts. Just like what Royce said, just find a big block engine and just bore and stroke the **** out of it. But like what everyone else said about the Cougars, they are just too damn heavy. Ford made them sport luxury cars. I guess you need to find a Thunderbolt or a Galaxie with a 427 Cammer in her. If you do get your Cougar hopped up and decide to race it in the fast catergory, kick GM and Chryslers, A#%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHHAHA
Thunderbolts aren't allowed in the series. No lightweight factory racers. Also since Ford never built a 427 Cammer Galaxie that is out too. Block, Heads, Exh Mans, Intake, Carb, Air Cleaner. Must all be factory original(they are letting some other parts in, if they follow the original parts.). So now if you could find 427 Galaxie, I still have doubts as large as that car is, that you could get anywhere. Might be better off getting a '67/8 Mustang coupe with a 390 and stroking the crap out of it. Or a 428CJ or SCJ '69/70 Mustang. Dunno....could possibly run a '67/8 Cougar with stroked 390. Remember the competition isn't that light either.

-RM
 

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Royce, a 71 with stroked 460(i have seen a 667kit) would own but be way to crazy to drive! I dunno my 02 cents
 
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