[droptopcat70]

HI all,
today i decided to do a little work on my eliminator.Went to the local parts store and picked up a new solenoid.I knew it was shot so i replaced it.Now heres where it gets kinda interesting.I turn the key over and it fires up n then dies, Does it again starts up and dies.I have to run a jumper wire from the coil to the positive side of the battery to keep it constantly running, and when you shut the key off you gotta pull the jumper wire to kill it.Now i talked to a fellow cougar buddy, and he said it can be of a few things.(1) a bad ignition switch,(2) the wires are reversed on the coil.Now i believe everything he says, has anyone encountered this problem before? I may have to end up replacing the entire wiring harness.Because the 1st to the last previous owner butchered this cars wiring to run gagues and a set of battery cables from the trunk to the engine compartment.Has anyone dealt with or know someone that has delt with painless wiring ? I figure instead of trying to deal w/ a hassle from a parts car`s wiring to replace the entire harness and be safe knowing its all brand new.I did get the car running and moved it n covered it for now until i get my parts collection going and start doing alittle for now until i`m ready for the full restomod.
thanks
pat

 

[swamper]

I had breaks and trashy splices on both the voltage regulator and solinoid. The problems with starting were solved by replacing the engine pigtail ( firewall plug to coil, temp sending and oil sending). It was less than $25 from Mustangs Unlimited. It had multiple brakes in insulation.

I used shop manual and wireing diagran book to check all the junk at solinoid and regulator. There were 4 leads spliced in for power that didn't go to anything (wires terminated under dash). I only took this on after replacing regulator and alternator and still not charging. It was result of bad splice. I also had slow drain on battery with car off. It took the better part of a day but everything works and looks better. I spent an other day cleaning up same sort of thing with dash out. There is a constant voltage regulator to control voltage to dash gauges. I don't know if this will work with painless system unless you plan on changing out all of the gauges. Good luck it gets frustrating at times with wireing.

 

[dark7068]

Take alook at the parts car harness before you spend the cash on a painless harness. Take the tape of the parts car one and take a look at it, examine it for cracks or breaks, and then retape it. My friend uses painless in his rods, and like the quality, but expensive. If you have a spare hrness, I'd use that first.

Rick

 

[TheRktmn]

Doesn't the Eliminator ignition go through the Tach like a XR7? If the tach is bad this could be breaking the ignition circuit in the run mode.

 

[itow]

If the car started and ran before you replaced the solenoid, make sure you just didn't simply put the fusable links on the wrong side of the solenoid. Its a very simple and easy mistake to make. That easily could be your problem, when the ignition switch is in 'Start' the solenoid sends 12v to the points.
If you do decide to change your wiring for whatever reason, I agree with Dark7068, use a factory one, it will keep some value in your car if you ever decided to sell it.

Scott

 

[droptopcat70]

Hi again
the solenoid was never changed before this problem started. It was like this from day 1 when i got it.I replaced the solenoid and did the wires exactly like they were when i removed the old 1.As for the harness situation i will have to decide what to do. I know people say to go back to original but taking a complete harness out of another car is kind of a hassle. If i ever sold it i would explain to them that the cars wiring harness was upgraded because some idiot wanted to make a wiring salad out of this 1. And i would hand them the old harness. Besides this car is going to have a 5 speed in it w/ a PST suspension kit and the 351c wont be a stock motor when i am done w/ it.
thanks
pat

 

[itow]

If it were me, (I own a NAPA Autocare Repair Center) I would buy a Factory Service Manual from Mustangs Unlimited for $35 and spend an evening checking it out before I ripped it apart. It will probably end up being something very simple once you figure it out. It could even be as simple as a bad ignition switch and replacing the wiring harness wouldn't fix it anyways. I'm not trying to be a jerk, just simply saying that you need to find out exactly what the problem is before you try to fix it... Definately check all the silly things like all the fuses, check the fusable links good (use a test light and probe the wire down below the fusable links) (all the wires except the one going to the starter should be on the side of the solenoid with the battery cable). You could even have something as simple as a burnt set of points because the dist/coil only get 6 volts from the ignition switch except when the key is in the start position it gets 12 (It would get 12 also with a jumper wire). 1st thing to do is check your fuses, fusable links, and see that the wires are on the solenoid right, then if all that is ok turn the key on and check for power at the + side of the coil (@ 6v) if you dont have any power at the coil then you need a wiring diagram to diagnose and find your troubles from there.
Hopefully this gets you pointed in the right direction...
Good luck!
Scott

 

[droptopcat70]

As much as i hate to say it
i will check thru the diagrams and see what may be the cause.But the car is going to get completly torn down to nothing but a body shell and redone, so when it comes to a basically brand new car from the ground up,so i will wave my options cause i really dont wanna have to find any lil problems w/ this harness again. But for now as i said it the car is in the yard all covered up until the parts start comming in and when my garage is built at our new place.
thanks
pat

 

[wvcat]

Hey Pat the I terminal on the solinoid is what is starting the car which is the way it is supposed to work but the ignition primary wiring or ignition switch is where your problem is as long as the wires are all in the right place. A bad tach could be the problem. I'll send you a wiring diagram for a 69(I don't have a 70) that will show you basically how its wired.
John
wvcat

 

[Elimin8or70]

i would try the ignition switch

 

[Buddy 97]

Hi Pat, My 69 did the same thing twice. If I remember correctly once it was the tach wire and the other time it was the pigtail that plugs into the iginition switch. Buddy

 

[droptopcat70]

thanks

Hi all
well i decided to go along w/ a complete replacement of the wiring harness from another 70 xr7 car. The harness has had way to many splices.When i tried starting the car the instrument cluster wasnt even in the car when this problem was happening so i couldnt tell if it was a bad tach or not. Ibought a harness off of neal jacobson and when i`m ready after the car is repainted and the assembly comes to the dash i`ll have a very good replacement for the existing harness...
thanks
pat

 

[69XR7]

Painless not so painless anyways

My best friend and I restored his 68 Firechicken and we put in a painless harness for a 67/68 firebird or camaro.
What a nightmere it took us 3 days to figure it out (of course the fact it was the first time may have played a role). Anyways i would say its a good choice to go with a harness from another cougar especially since painless doesnt make one specifically for cougars.

just my 0.02

Matt

 

[Royce Peterson]

Quote:
"When i tried starting the car the instrument cluster wasnt even in the car when this problem was happening so i couldnt tell if it was a bad tach or not"

Are you reading any of the suggestions people are giving you? Plug in the instrument panel and tachometer, there is no way it's going to run without it.

The jumper wire from solenoid to the coil will fry the coil quickly, the coil is made to use 9 volts continuous. It gets 12 when the key is turned to "start" to compensate for the voltage drop while the starter motor is operating.

 

[droptopcat70]

Royce
the instrument cluster is gone i sold it in a trade deal to another cougar person.Besides it doesnt matter anyways the car is sitting right now and it isnt going anywhere .i dont plan on driving this anytime soon so i dont see the big fuss over this anyways.I only asked what the problem could be not try and solve a problem to get it continusly to run because when i bought it it had a jumper wire everytime when we tried to start it and move it.

 

[droptopcat70]

Plus
i asked if anyone has encountered this problem. I didnt know you need the instrument cluster to keep the car running either. Plus on non xr7 eliminator cars you need to hood up the instrument cluster to keep the car running as well? The harness is a mess and since this car is not going to be original anyways i`m gonna build it and enjoy it as a good show car/ pro touring car/driver and not care about its originality. I`m not 1 that if i find a car that has a incorrect motor tranny rearend or anything else and its rare do i plan on finding parts to bring it back to original/concorse. Thats why i want to go with a 5 speed tremec in it and a stroker motor and a full custom interior since the cluster is already gone,the pass side clock trim,clock, center console,front seats are all gone cause i got that 70 xr7 vert i`m gonna strip and use that cluster and the trim around the cluster and around the clock are gonna be made out of billet alumn. and the seats are gonna be going in from a mustang cobra.So this car will be far from originality.
thanks
pat

 

[Royce Peterson]

Sure, I encounter that problem every time I try to start the car with the tachometer unplugged. Replacing the wiring harness won't help. If you simply plug the two tachometer connections into each other the car will operate without jumpering the coil.

 

[droptopcat70]

Royce
there is NO cluster the wiring harness looks like a complete rats nest .Splices and dices everywhere. Replacing the harness will help this 1 situation out, but when i put in a new cluster then perhaps the problem will be solved but again this wiring harness is a complete mess and replacing it is the best situation for the solution .
thanks
pat

 

[Royce Peterson]

OK I will try again.

1. Look for a single red wire that comes from the ignition switch and has nothing plugged into it. That used to hook up to the tachometer. It supplies power to your coil and through the points and condenser, your spark plugs. This wire has a female connector.

2. Look for a dark red wire coming from the firewall engine feed connector. It's fatter than all the other wires under your dash. That is because it is a resistance wire with a cloth and carbon center conductor. This wire has a male connector with a black end.

3. Plug those two wires together. If the connectors are gone, splice them together. If you can't find them in under five minutes with a flashlight you are probably blind.

4. The car starts with the key and runs normally!

 

[droptopcat70]

Royce
ok ill remember that after i REPLACE the harness if it doesnt start up.
thanks
pat