[71cougar]

Okay so i have a 72 cougar with the 351c and powertrain from a 71 the 351 has 400 miles on the rebuild and the FMX has a fresh rebuild with a 2400 stall TCI converter.

I just had it tuned by a mechanic and it revs just fine in the driveway. Then when i try to drive it kind of chugs and if i dont gas through it, it dies. My first thought was electrical so i replaced the voltage regulator and tested the alternator and the diode was bad so i put on another alternator and have the same issue. I have yet to test it but i am wondering if there is something killing my alternators or am i chasing the wrong issue.

Both the alternators were working when i pulled the engines a couple months ago. Also i noticed that the wiring for the alternator was different from my 71 to 72. the 71 only has 2 wires but the 72 has 4 going to the regulator.

I have been thinking of converting to a one wire setup for the alt i am not sure if it will help.

Also when the engine was in the 71 i had a MSD box hooked for the MSD distributor but i have changed distributor to a non-controller required unit.

Is it possible that it is the carb the 71 sat for about 6-8 months without running?

Any ideas are welcome

 

[Bad69cat]

Don't willy nilly swap this/that/the other thing. Troubleshoot it first, then swap out if you feel the need still. How sure are you you got the dizzy back in correct?...I'd start there, then look for vac leaks, timing, and see what you find. Easy alt check is to pull the neg post while the car is running, if it dies you need to check theat the wiring is correct, and that the alt is good.....

 

[71cougar]

i am fairly certain the distributor in correct but i have been wrong before. when i replaced it i put the engine at #1 tdc marked(the manifold) where the rotor was pulled the dist. and marked(the manifold) where the rotor was when pulled. then put the new one in and checked after rotating the engine a few times.
if the distributor was put in wrong wouldnt i notice it without a load as well? it easily revs to 4000-5000 without issue with no load.
whats the least invasive way to ensure that i am not a tooth off?

the timing is set at 6 btdc, have replaced vacuum lines and plugged ports that arent being used.

 

[doctordesoto]

i'd vote for a vac leak---carb or cabb base gasket
doctordesoto

 

[71cougar]

So others have been suggesting that my issue is timing, so i am wondering what is the easiest way to see if my distributor is a tooth off. The only way i can think of is to take it out move it a tooth and put back in and if it doesnt work go two teeth the other direction and see if it works. Trial and error.

Ideas welcome

 

[1970fastcat]

Moving teeth does nothing. There has long been debate that "rotor phasing" can be an issue, but it has nothing to do with the gears. I argued this debate with some of the old timers that say it is, untill I was blue in the face. Once they actually heard me out on the reasoning and understood what I was talking about, the conversation went dead.

I would check that the distributor is actually advancing. After setting your initial timing, hook the vacuum lines and everything back up, then see what the timing does when it is revved up to about 3500. You should be getting at least 20 extra degrees of timing out of it. From my experience, Clevelands like around 30° to 36° total advance, all in around 3200. I would also check for vacuum leaks by spraying carb cleaner all around the intake and carb base and listen for changes in RPM.

 

[71cougar]

so from what your saying if my distributor has 21 degrees of advance and my timing is at 6 btdc i need to install either the 25 or 28 bushings to get decent cleveland timing.

Also thanks for clarifying the rotor phasing it never made any sense to me why it would need to happen, i am glad some more experienced than myself has the same idea

 

[1970fastcat]

Personally I would just set the initial timing at 10° and check to make sure that it is advancing properly. You may want to play around with it too, try it out in 2 degree incriments and run it down the road and see where it makes the best power. I don't know anyone who has had good luck setting the timing by the book on a Cleveland. I had mine set at 34° total, then pulled the initial down 4° to see if it would help with over heating. I lost lots of power. It will depend on how your engine is set up, but generally Clevelands don't like less than 30° total advance unless they have aluminum heads.

 

[71cougar]

My cleveland is setup with:
Edelbrock RPM heads, Spreed Pro hypereu pistons, 10-10.5 to 1 compression, windage tray
Comp Dual Energy 265 cam, dual plane manifold, 600 cfm carb
MSD wires and coil, aftermarket distributor
i run 91 octane fuel

Thanks for helping figuring out what timing i should run has never been one my strengths

 

[Bad69cat]

SO is the dizzy your running right now the one that was running OK before or is it new? Mech advance or vac advance?

 

[Cedar Rapids Ia]

Blew the base plate gasket on mine last year....and it ran horrible...chug, chug, chug...it was the last thing that I checked. I kept throwing money at it...new plugs and wires, then I finally pulled the carb...sometimes the easy fix is the one you need.

 

[71cougar]

bad69cat the one i was running before was a msd mechanical with controller and the new one is mechanical and vacuum so that i could get better mpgs
the one that is on now is brand new i am not using the msd controller on the new distributor

the first thing i do after i get off work tomorrow is get some carb cleaner and look for leaks and i will definitely check the carb base and spacer gasket

 

[71cougar]

okay so i was able to look at it the other day and i found out the guy who did my timing did it with the vacuum advance hooked up!!! i unplugged the advance and turned the distributor until the rpms peaked i believe i am at around 14 degrees btdc. i drove it to my brothers house and it great, but after it cooled down for a few hours and i was heading back it started to die when i would take my foot off the accelerator, so i figured i had advanced it to far so when i was trying to bring the timing down to 10 btdc the car died so i tried turing up the idle, still dies. So now my car will not idle at all. i tried to go back to the timing i had before no help.

One of my thoughts is that because the car sat for a long time and this is the most fuel it has held that maybe there was rust in the tank and now it is blocking the fuel line because i do not see fuel in the see-through fuel filter.

Or is it more likely the fuel pump that I installed last year and has been working great.

Please Advise

 

[Bad69cat]

You are hooking the vac advance up to ported vacuum and not constant vaccum on the carb right? That means no vacuum until certain conditions are met, then it will have vac to advance when needed....so know which port on the carb is for what. (On Holleys it tends to be the upper most one, but not always)

other than that, I'd say you still need to verify no vac leaks, and yes, be sure you don't have a bunch of gunk in the fuel filter that indicates [email protected] from the tank - not unusual either.

 

[71cougar]

Well guys thanks for the responses

I finally got a chance to work on the car and using carb cleaner found the vac leak at the carb base
I won"t have a chance to work on it again for awhile but i"ll let you guys know if the gasket is the only issue

 

[Bad69cat]

You can double up the gasket if need be - don't overtighten the thing to make up for bad seals (probably how it got to leaking in the first place)

 

[doctordesoto]

edelbrock sells a *****en gasket about 5/16 thick with plastic inserts in the corners so you cant over tighten--about $ 18.00
doctordesoto

 

[71cougar]

edelbrock sells a *****en gasket about 5/16 thick with plastic inserts in the corners so you cant over tighten--about $ 18.00
doctordesoto

Thanks i will look into that gasket, though i would need 2 since i have a spacer.

How bad would it be to rtv it?

 

[71cougar]

Alright so here is the update i finally got my newly rebuilt carb on and the car runs pretty good but i now have two issues.

First the transmission does not want to shift into first at a stop it stays in second, but i can shift it down manually.

Second my friend hears a slight ping, now i forgot if a ping is too advanced or retarded on timing.