Anyone know what guideplates and screw in studs I can use for my dove heads and harland sharp roller rockers? I'd rather not have to machine them because I dont want to take them off. I am using the stock adjustable valvetrain right now. Anyone know what guideplates I could use and what length studs to get? Ive read that many people have had issues with this stuff and I wanted to avoid the headache of trying to figure it out on my own and spend a bunch of money doing it. Also what pushrod length would I have to get?
Dove guideplates and studs
1 - 20 of 47 Posts
So not enough information here. What are you trying to do? "guideplates and screw in studs" are pretty generic items. Are you working on a small block, or a big block? Cam swap? When you say "dove" heads, are you talking aftermarket heads, or actual D0VE Ford heads? If you are swapping a new cam, you WILL HAVE TO MEASURE YOUR OWN LENGTH. An adjustable push rod, and a couple of light weight springs will only set you back 20 bucks. Way better than a new cam, and third set of pushrods. Ask me how I know...Also, depending on cam, you will want new gears, and torque converter (if automatic trans car).
Joined
·
13,577 Posts
FWIW, the retrofit kits which utilize the stock 5/16 bolt hole for the stock fulcrums are weak IMO. Not really any better than stock. If you truly want/need the studs and guideplates, you need to have the heads machined for "real ones", not the wannabe retrofit stuff.
Yea sorry I forgot to mention that info...Its a 460 with factory c9ve heads and a mild comp cams camshaft...dont remember the number on it but I think it was around .533 lift. I just dont want my rocker arms to fall off the damn valve tip like on my small block twice (and bent a valve both times!) I have seen many guideplates for the later pedestal mount rockers but nothing really for my type head. I have the factory adjustable rockers on now.
Joined
·
11,950 Posts
Agreed - get it machined. What ratio are your rockers? You may want to see if somebody out is cyber world has the same parts/spec's you do to get info. Short of that you are going to have to do it the hard way, and get some adjustable PR's to begin the task of figuring out the correct length. Google is you friend there as well - some good articles out there on valve train geometry. No point re-inveting the wheel. --Which reminds me you will want to re-index your timing - kit's are cheap at Summit/Jegs, etc.
Ok well until I can get everything figured out to use the rollers someone help me with the original rocker arm setup...It has the original adjustable rocker arms and pushrods but how come I can tighten the rocker arm all the way down to the end of the threads and still have the rocker arms wiggle from side to side? Im not talking about a little side to side movement at the valve stem, im talking about the rocker arm being able to "rock" from side to side. They move quite a bit and it doesnt seem normal at all and I get a lot of valvetrain noise. Does this mean maybe I need new pushrods? Why would they be that loose if everything is original??? I mean this motor literally was not taken apart until I took it apart and had it redone. Anyone??
Joined
·
13,577 Posts
The original was not adjustable, it was a non-adjustable pedestal rocker that you tighten down the 5/16" bolts and torque to spec.
No mine were adjustable. Casting is C9VE and I looked it up and they came that way from the factory. http://www.raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod/engine3.html this is one of the many sites that say the early model heads have the rail rockers not pedestal rockers. Even if it was the case(which its not) I can still tighten the rocker arms all the way down and still have them loose.
Joined
·
13,577 Posts
Yep, the page you reference shows only D0 CJ and SCJ heads as having screw in studs/guideplates.
Now, assuming you do have screw in studs/guideplates and hydraulic lifters (BTW, are the lifters new or used? Clean or goopy?), here is how you adjust them. First make sure they are properly pumped up, turn the dist. oil pump drive until oil is coming out of the pushrods/lifters. Then, take your firing order 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 and stack the first four on top of the second four. Then make cylinder 6 rockers rock, that is one is opening, the other closing, make them even. This should be close to TDC for cylinder 1 (you can check this one on the balancer). Then (on cylinder 1) carefully tighten down the nut while turning the pushrod, take up close to all slack and then turn. Feel for the very beginning of drag as the last of the slack is taken out, this is zero lash. Then, turn the nut 3/4 turn more, that's it. Repeat for the other valve of cylinder 1. Move on to cylinder 5, make cylinder 3 rock and so on.
The rockers may be a little loose (but not a lot after) you are done, this is a function if lifter bleed (thus my question about new or used lifters). If they are real loose, your lifters are bleeding down too much and you need new lifters (and possibly cam, check lifter cupping when you take them out, more than just a tad of cupping and you need new lifters AND cam).
Hope this helps.
Bob
Now, assuming you do have screw in studs/guideplates and hydraulic lifters (BTW, are the lifters new or used? Clean or goopy?), here is how you adjust them. First make sure they are properly pumped up, turn the dist. oil pump drive until oil is coming out of the pushrods/lifters. Then, take your firing order 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 and stack the first four on top of the second four. Then make cylinder 6 rockers rock, that is one is opening, the other closing, make them even. This should be close to TDC for cylinder 1 (you can check this one on the balancer). Then (on cylinder 1) carefully tighten down the nut while turning the pushrod, take up close to all slack and then turn. Feel for the very beginning of drag as the last of the slack is taken out, this is zero lash. Then, turn the nut 3/4 turn more, that's it. Repeat for the other valve of cylinder 1. Move on to cylinder 5, make cylinder 3 rock and so on.
The rockers may be a little loose (but not a lot after) you are done, this is a function if lifter bleed (thus my question about new or used lifters). If they are real loose, your lifters are bleeding down too much and you need new lifters (and possibly cam, check lifter cupping when you take them out, more than just a tad of cupping and you need new lifters AND cam).
Hope this helps.
Bob
Lifters are new(comp cams) as is the camshaft. Cam is around .530 lift(cant remember exactly) and motor was rebuilt by a local performance shop. I can tighten the rockers all the way down until I have no more threads left and the rockers are still loose. My stepdad told me to call the shop and ask them and also said he thinks I need longer pushrods. He said since I can tighten the nut down all the way and still have loose rocker arms that my pushrods are too short. Could the base circle on the cam be smaller than the stock cam? Maybe that is why when the valves are closed they are loose. I dont know a whole lot about camshafts so Im just wondering. I also had a lifter fail on me last week. Found it in three pieces in the lifter valley. Lifters are all new comp cams high energy lifters.
Been looking on the comp cams website and found out some info on pushrod lengths for my app. I pulled out one pushrod and it measured 8.625 inches. Now on the comp cams website they list pushrods for a 429/460 from 69-71 that are 8.680 inches and they are 3/8" and mine are 5/16". All the other pushrods for 429/460 that comp cams lists are from 72 and later and they are 5/16" and closer to the length that I have at 8.616". So Im wondering if maybe I grabbed the wrong pushrods when I assembled the motor. It does seem to me though that the difference in the lengths of the pushrods wouldnt cause my rocker arms to move as much as they do...Comp cams offers a pushrod for my motor that is 8.780 but I think that they might be too long. Maybe those would be for a roller rocker arm. Anyway Im gonna pull out all of the pushrods now and check them all for differences in length. Anyone have any thoughts?
Joined
·
11,950 Posts
Sounds like you are on the right track....measure them all and check for bent while youre at it. I'd see if you can find/borrow an adjustable PR from a builder or get one. I think that's the best piece of mind. You know youre going to end up larger than 8.625, the question is how much? Guessing can be an expensive game at 4500 RPM. Sounds like the 8.68x-8.7xx is likey to be the range, the other option would be to order a few and try them, then commit to a full set once you find it. A builder might be able to help you out there as well....
Had another lifter explode into pieces on me!! Im getting tired of this garbage...I ordered a set of pushrods, lifters, and new rocker arm nuts(mine seemed to have lost their self-locking ability). Should be in tomorrow and car should be back together and running again tomorrow night(hopefully). If it happens again its going in the lake!
Joined
·
13,577 Posts
What exactly do you mean by "lifter explode"?
Well explode was the wrong word...that was said out of anger and frustration but it did end up in pieces in the lifter valley. The cup that the pushrod rests in and the retaining clip and this flat metal piece with four holes in it were found in the lifter valley. I did get my new one piece hardened pushrods in along with some more lifters so Im gonna try and tackle it tonight or tomorrow and see how it turns out. I do have a question though...when I put the rocker arm on with the pushrod installed should the rocker arm pivot ball's flat surface that contacts the rocker arm nut be right flush with the threads on the stud? Because when I look at it, it looks like im still not going to be able to tighten it down any and still have the same problems.
Joined
·
13,577 Posts
Take some pictures and post them.
Joined
·
11,950 Posts
IF you have the correct length PR you should have no problems with the locks tightening>? Are any of them bent? If not, what sounds like is happening is you are to short and it allows the PR to jump out of it's socket and bind on the retaining ring in the lifter and pops it appart. That would make sense if you can't tighten the locks too.....
Joined
·
5,883 Posts
Indeed, sir.
1 - 20 of 47 Posts
Join the discussion
Join now to ask and comment!