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Discussion Starter #1
Hello, newbie here. Sorry if this is an old discussion, but I thought I had a Cleveland and someonw has cast doubt on my conviction. What's the test?

1970 Standard Convertible.

Thanks.
Lisa:confused:
 

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cleveland or not

Lisa their are only 2 ways I know if It's a W or C. Spark plugs cleveland 10mm / windsor 14mm.Thermostat Cleveland top left front of motor Windsor top left on top of motor:D STEELCAT 70 XR7 Convertible I have a Windsor.
 

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To expand on Steelcat's explanation, on a 351 Windsor, the upper radiator hose connects to the intake manifold. On a 351 Cleveland, it connects to the block.

That's the easiest way to tell the difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hm, I was hoping I could do a vin search or something...

So the big fat top rad hose appears to go to the center top of the block. Unless that is the manifold... (it's dark currently).

And thanx for the greetings, all.

L
 

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cleveland or windsor

Lisa you can get info from your vin# It's called martiautoworks (623)935-2558 call him you need your vin# and I think about $40 and he will send you a complete history on your cat .When I got my report I was supprised about all the info about my CAT.Even told me what dealership order & sold it. make sure you order the deluxe report.:D STEELCAT 70 XR7 convert.
 

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Can you tell by valve cover bolts? I had same Question when i got my 70, never having a cleveland or windsor I called one of the bigger cougar parts dealers can't remember which they said eight bolts on covers cleveland, i think? 6 on windsor mine has eight. Free Ford report said mine came with cleveland. Please let me know if i'm going on wrong info Thanks
 

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easy way...... Cleveland has 8 bolts on the valve covers the Windsor has 6 look on the corners of the heads on the Cleveland too. where the valve cover attaches make sure there isnt a big M stamped there...... that would indicate a 351 or 400 M engine.........
 

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my Windsor
 

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my cleveland:D
 

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Contributing Sr Motorhead
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Quick engine family ID tip

Count the valve cover bolts.

Five bolts- FE (352, 360, 390, 427, 428)
Six bolts- Windsor Small block (260, 289, 302, 351W)
Seven bolts- 385 series (429, 460)
Eight bolts- 335 series Clevelands (351C, 351M, 400)

There is an exception to this 'rule', namely the Boss 302, which is a Windsor small block block with Cleveland-style heads - but that is another whole can of worms.

Both the FE series and the 385 series have been referred to as 'big blocks'. It is wise to ask when someone says 'big block' as to what in the heck they are talking about! Then we get into the discussion of whether or not the Clevelands are small blocks. Some say yes, some say no.

Then we get into the differences that can be found within each engine family.

351Ws have a taller block than other small blocks. Since the block is taller, the intake manifold is wider. Then there are the 12 vs 16 bolt intake manifolds....(I think that's right. I don't mess with small blocks :p: ) 351Ws use bigger head bolts. 351Ws have a bigger diameter oil pump drive shaft.

351Cs are different from their 351M/400 counterparts because they use the shorter block. 351M/400s have a taller block. Easy way to tell the block is look at the distributor hole. If the distributor mounting surface is flush with the intake manifold surface, you have a 351C. If there is a 3/4" raised wall at the intake surface, you have a 351M/400. 351Cs also use a 'normal' Windsor small block bellhousing bolt pattern. 351M/400s use a taller pattern that is the same pattern as the 429/460s All 351M/400s were made as 2-barrel engines, too. The 351C came either way. The 351C four barrel heads used much bigger ports than the two barrel.

Then there are the open vs closed chamber heads. Then there are the non-adjustable vs the adjustable valvetrain heads. Aaaauuuuggggh! ID-ing Ford engine parts can be a real pain in the wallet if you think you're getting one part when you actually bought something else... Quite maddening!

Hope this helps some of you!
 

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Ooops, I forgot

I forgot to mention that Ford really created a mess when they decided to use the engine (vin) code 'H' for all two-barrel 351s. 351Ws, 351C-2Vs and 351Ms all have the VIN code of 'H'. Is that confusing or what? :confused:
 

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HMMMM......

by now, I imagine Lisa has run screaming to her local car dealer to buy a Toyota. I somehow get the feeling she was hoping for a very simple solution (like a big neon sign on the motor that says "Windsor" or "Cleveland") and didn't find it.

I have a Cleveland myself, and looking at the photos that were posted and the identifying notes about the radiator hose, I can't tell the difference. They all look alike to me!

Hint to Lisa: take you car to your local Ford dealer and ask them!
 

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73xr7owner, just a question. When was the last time you seen your optrometrist? Sounds like a appointment is in order soon.

That is they do have them in WV right? (Sorry about the last part I couldnt resist)

All joking aside CJ is right and they can get confusing if one hasnt been around them alot. mm
 

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351C

I thought a strate on shot of a clevland could be of some help. This is badcatts engine in 1997.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Wow, well thanks for all the input--it was all helpful (the sum 10 answers and photos lead to an almost positive identification...)

I've got 8-bolt valve covers. That leaves me to choose between the 351C or the 351M (I'm ruling out the 400 because my air cleaner cover says "351 2V"--I hope that's not naive). Unfortunately the block is too dirty to find the alleged M, and I'm not sure I understand the 3/4" extension concept for the distributor. There's a mounting bracket that appears to be flush with the block, but the dist itself is mounted on a shaft, which I'm guessing they all do.

Now the next question: What is the practical difference between the C and the W? I think I should prolly start another thread for that because it leads to another problem I've got.

Lisa
 

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I know i'm going back to the previous question, but the way I tell clevelands from other engines is the number 2 or 4. That is, on the corner of the heads, directly adjacent to the valve cover, should be a number...either a 2 or a 4. These numbers tell whether the engine is a 2 barrel Cleveland, or a 4 barrel cleveland. Also, look on the intake for a piece of insignia, it should have a big "C" with a little "f" inside of the C. This stands for Cleveland Foundary. That's about all I can think of that wouldn't be just a little too repetitive:D .
 

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Cleveland Foundry/engine plants

Ummm, Mav? The Cleveland Foundry and engine plants made many more engines than just 351 Clevelands. They made 302/5.0s there for years, and also the old 300ci inline six, 429/460s, 351M/400s... The plant is still in operation even though all those engines went the way of the dodo, so I'm sure that something else is being made there. All those engine parts will have the Cleveland Foundry logo on them.
 
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