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OK....my story just keeps getting worse!! Removed my cylinder heads today and found that my Cleveland block has been bored to .040!! Is this too much? What are the limits to a Cleveland 2 bolt block? Haven't had it tested at the machine shop yet but is it really worth it? Thanks again for all your help.:cry: :cry:
 

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Jeff,
from what i was told the 351c block can go up to as much as a .060 bore but thats to extreme i think. a .040 borejob is ok, shouldnt have any complications to it. A 2 bolt block is the same as a 4 bolt block(as you already know this) only thing different is the extra bolt holes for the main caps. So a .040 bore should be ok .
thanks
pat
 

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Last I knew Clevelands were not as 'borable' as you would think. I believe that they are a thin casting. I had always heard that .030' was about the reliable limit. Granted, there is enough there to go bigger, but for a daily driver that is getting kind of thin. You may want to check with your machine shop to make sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks Pat....makes me feel a little bit better. This engine just keeps depressing me. If it needs more machine work I might just trash it and find another one.
 

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Thank you too Bob....it will be at the machine shop sometime next week for their recommendations. I was mainly looking for a "heads-up".
 

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Jeff,
if you need a block i got a virgin block ready to go ,i wont ask alot for it just help cover the shipping costs thats all.
thanks
pat.
if you wanna know more about it email me and we can chat..
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Pat, just sent you a PM
 

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Bill Dempsey and my good machinist friend Jack Tarner both claim to have hit air boring a 351C .030" oversize. Both also claim 1970 blocks are superior to later ones. The reported bad cylinders are #4 and #8, the two rear most. Jeff, If it does not need overhauling and ran cool before why not leave well enough alone? How do the bearings look?
 

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They didn't look too great Royce. #4 had a little bit of scoring, #5 was gold (brass colored) from overheating I guess, #8 had one deep groove, #3 looked ok except there was a small chunk missing, and the front main has a deep groove. The rest look ok. The cylinder bores were ok at first glance but when I shined a flashlight in it I was pretty unhappy. The crank has been resurfaced to .010...at least that's what the bearings say. At this point in the game I think I might only be comfortable getting everything done and the .040 overbore of the block just pushed me over the edge. At least none of the rods looked bent or twisted on first inspection. I pretty much feel like I don't have much of a choice. Bores are gone....I'm pretty sure. #8 has been burning oil, #5 had some debris in it and scratched the bore pretty good, #4 I can get a feeler gauge in there to about .010....the book I have said .008 is pretty much the limit and will need a rebore...."How to Build Ford V8 Engines" by Tom Monroe. So......you see my delima...I think I'm in trouble.
 

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I would say it is lucky you had the intake gasket problem, it would suck to finish restoring your car and then have to pull the motor later.
 

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Jeff, to bad you didnt know you needed one when I was trying to give away that 2v Cleavland. I just got rid of it about a month ago and it was a std bore block!

Let me know if you still need one as I think my brother still has one that he might part with, but I'd have to check. mm
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Royce,
Thanks, I didn't know there was a Cleveland board.....it has been added to my "favorites" list. And you are right, I didn't think of it that way. I was only thinking about how bad of luck I was having....not that I was lucky to have found all this in the first place. I was just going to reassemble the motor and drive her. I might have gotten 10-12 thousand more miles out of it but then had a catastrophic failure! So, thanks for the different point of view.

Thanks Mark....probably already located one but if it doesn't work out I'll let you know.
 

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Cleveland bore limits

Hmmmm, we must have a board gremlin. I tried to post this reply in this thread and it showed up somewhere else. Go figure.

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Back when I was building more engines some 20-odd years ago, (and parts were available), I always used original NOS Ford Boss 351 rod bolts. They were less expensive than the aftermarket bolts (I think Moroso was the only outside source back then) and they were still 180,000 psi tensile strength bolts. Also back then we could still get Boss 351 valvesprings for $24/set. I serioulsy doubt that Ford still has any of those parts available these days though...

I've also heard that Clevelands were notorious for core shift during casting, and that many blocks could not be bored safely oversize at all. Have your block sonic tested for thickness before paying the bucks for boring.

I sincerely wish that the parts aftermarket wouldn't start the overbores at .030. Most blocks would be just fine with an overbore of half that amount. Why needlessly go all the way to .030 over when you don't have to? Heck, some of the larger commercial rebuilders go all the way to .040 overbore for the first overbore. What a waste of a block!
 

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Clevelands were a great idea but came to be late in the performance game. Weather you go with this engine or another one DONT SKIMP ON THE CONNECTING RODS. I had 2 good friends that rag raced (one still does) these engines and they continually have/had rod problems. The oiling and the rods are the weak parts. As for the blocks, neither (from bad experiences) will use one past .040 over but say your safe at .040

Just my $.02
Scott
 

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Scott,

I believe he's playing with a 2V, and going with just a mild upgrade on the rebuild. With that in mind, he really doesn't need anything more than stock reconditioned rods if he's gonna keep it below 5500rpm. I'd still get good rod bolts though, they're cheap insurance. Eagle makes rods for Clevelands, but they're expensive at over $500/set. If I was going to seriously abuse the engine with a lot of time at high rpms, I'd consider them, but for a streeter, they're really not necessary.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I plan on using the stock rods with my upgrade....however I am getting the ARP Rod Bolts for that extra insurance. The 2v is being upgraded to a 4bbl with the Edelbrock Performer intake. Thanks for the heads up on the Eagle rods anyway....probably out of my budget. Looks like I will be spending well over 2,000 as it is.
 

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I was in a Hurry last time!

Yeah your right, The stock rods are fine for "normal" ripping around. I had a Cleveland with stock rods with ARP bolts I turned it to 6500 (on missed shifts, lifters/springs floated at 6500!!:( )
I was in a hurry on my last reply... :D
Good luck with it though, Just remember it could be worse. For example I had a 351w Built up pretty decent and the little star washer/holding clip on the oil pump dive rod broke and went into the oil pump and loked the oil pump which not only twisted the oil pump drive off but ruined the crank/rods/and spun the mains. THAT SUCKED! But hey if we put them together 1 time and they ran perfect forever with no troubles or anything to ever improve on how fun would out little hobby really be!!!:D
Scott
 

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Hey, how about a windsor block? 289 variety?
 
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