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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've got this 65 Mustang in my shop for bodywork and paint with a Mustang 2 coilover front suspension and a Coyote 5.0 with a Tremec 5 speed. The floor pans have been replaced, but only the halves, so one in front of and one behind the seat risers. The subframe is now only spot welded to a poorly replaced floor pan. No torque boxes, no reinforements, just a boxed frame from the firewall forward. The guy that is building it has no experience with anything other than 40s, 50s, and 60s restorations, so no real performance upgrading, custom fabricating, or re-engineering anything. Well, he has no bracing in the front of this thing now, and I'm trying to tell him that he needs to get AT LEAST a heavy-duty subframe connector kit like TCI's; the same one in Stacy David's Interceptor. What else do you think this guy needs to make his car not fold up? BTW, it belongs to the guitarist of 38 Special (I think it was his first car or something- his Dad bought it for him forever ago) , so it has to be extra-special nice.

If nothing else, this is what it takes to get a Coyote in one of these! (too much work, IMO):










 

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WOW Sean awesonme pics!! That is spectacular....I agree it's a ton of work! And well done thus far too. So much for the theory of a drop in like I've heard due to the flat oil pan! Actually it looks even wider than a mod motor..? Is the firewall set back at all? Looks like length is ok....
 

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you are correct
the first time he gets really good traction with modern tires
and HARD on the launch it will twist and crease the rear 1/4
I have done it b-4
and yes subframe connectors will help
 

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Theres much left to be done. no doubt. A little premature on getting paint at this stage though....he will likely need to blow the thing appart a few times to get things fabbed and lined up again. To many opportunities to hurt the paint yet... What are the rear suspension plans I wonder? A nice IRS from a Cobra would sure sweeten the pot! The motor mount sare going to be boxed in I'm assuming/hoping....
 

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The Mustang II setup takes a lot of the twist out of the front end and puts it in the framerails, so the lack of bracing wont really hurt the handling or front end "slop". The problem is, it tranfers all that twist to the framerails, therefore subframe connectors are a must. Even better would be the ones you are talking about that actually connect to each other.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
I can see that the front suspension is really strong as a modular unit, but I'm concerned about how it should connect to the rest of the car. I was more worried about it either popping the crummy spot welds out of the sheetmetal floorpans and/or buckling the sheetmetal inner fenders when he goes over a hard bump or into his driveway, and then the whole front end gets loose and noses up and the bottoms of the fender-door gaps opening up.

So, the motor mounts need to be boxed?

Also- what do you think about the strut rod 45 degree braces? They're cut in half now, but are they still necessary? The whole thing seems so barely-together to me.

And yes, it is VERY premature to have it in the paint shop. There are an easy 100 hours of fitting and fab still needing to be done.
 

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when all is said and done that car is gonna be awesome!
 

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that car needs alot of structure before you paint. ton of welding/bracing to be done. there is nothing there to hold it together other than the rockers!
 

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Hopefully they follow through on structural - the guy shoulda went to a rod shop rather than a resto shop if that's all the guy does - but who knows? Could be plans we don't know, just concerned they are hitting paint at this point....This thing has potential big time! The work that has been done is nice, so I gotta think they are on a path unseen.
 

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Mustang and Cougars run their suspension stresses through the upper firewall. When Ford Australia did away with the triangulated braces that ran from top of strut towers to centre of the firewall on Falcons, they added braces alongside the top edge of the inner fender, from strut tower back to the firewall. Later Falcons also have a small triangulated piece in the corner where the inner fender meets the radiator support

Mustangs and Cougars aren't designed to take all the suspension loads along the lower frame rail and they will have problems with the frame rails twisting if they don't run subframe connectors (preferably with cross brace and braces to underfloor side rails) and a triangulated brace from in front of the upper control arm to the top corner of the firewall where the inner fender meets the firewall. You probably don't need a montecarlo bar or export brace set up as there aren't any suspension loads running along the top of the inner fender. Welding some square tubing along the outside of the top of the inner fender will also replace some of the strength lost when the strut towers where removed

That brake booster setup would never get passed inspection in Oz. Really crappy engineering with all those uncontrolled side forces. He would be better off installing an internal master cylinder like they are doing for the behind dash mounted cylinders on hot rods
 

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...So, the motor mounts need to be boxed?...
If you look at your third picture, you see how skeletal the mount is. A little torque and they look like they would bend/lay right over because they are just a folded up pieces of plate steel. If they come in a kit, the instructions MUST indicate them needing to be boxed/reinforced, no?
 

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Good start, but the mounts are a definite weak point. A lot of reinforcing will be needed considering the engine mounts are located right beside the upper A arm. A good bump in the road and it could break up. The welds have to be exceptional with this set up and Stacey David did similar work to his Cougar check it out here....http://staceydavid.com/projects/v8-interceptor
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
That's funny... The shop that fabbed the whole front suspension (With ads on the back of Mustangs and Fords mag) made that master cylinder thing. I told him the same thing about the under-dash booster, and he just blew me off. I think its quite lame to have put all this money into the car and not even put power brakes on it. Lol... I'm pretty confident that this thing is going to crumple up if/when it ever gets on the road.

The guy doing the work came and took it back to his shop. I think after I brought two magazines in and showed him pics of all the stuff he had to make in addition to relaying all your suggestions, pointing out all the places that were "repaired" poorly, and just all-around saying how NOT ready for paint the car was, he got the feeling I'd be picking at any work he was going to do and would rather do it in secret instead. I may see it sometime next year, if at all. I get the feeling the owner may pull it from him and give it to a more reputable shop. That would be good. I've thought about sending the owner a facebook message and "educating" him on what's really going on with his car.
 

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Would that shop be Dugan?
 

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I think you are doing them both a service actually Sean...if the guy want's to do that type of work he needs to know the things required. He may have truley been thinking he was doing well...and now knows there are better approaches and things to consider. The owner may not be a car guy in the wrenching side of things and wouldn't have known any better. It certainly makes you and your shop look much more reputable and that's always good..
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Not Dugan. It's a guy that used to run Route 66 Restorations, but now just does it himself out of a nasty old garage. The guys that used to work for him knew what they were doing, unlike himself.
 

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Hopefully they get it done right - cuz that thing has tons of potential! I'd love to see it completed! Keep us posted if it comes back for anything later on....
 
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