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Discussion Starter #1
Question for the wise cat lovers on here.

Never had this issue at all until we recently stuffed all new vac lines and actuators into my 67 XR7. All of a sudden we have no leaks (that we can find), lights now work flawlessly, open and closing... idles and starts beautifully still..... however, now when we open either door while the car is running,,,, it immediately chokes and dies :(

any advice would be awesome folks :)
 

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LOL - Doc - it hurts when I do this ------ "well, don't do that" :>)

At least your lights work good now - aside from driving Bo and Luke Duke , I'd say you somehow disturbed something in the wiring through but through the doors...? Hmmmm Crazy - why would the door interrupt the ignition circuit though - have you ever tied in anything for the ignition like a pertronix or something?..... both doors is the odd thing - at first I thought you were opening a ground path but that wouldn't explain either door, so it's gotta be something related to the door switches.....? I'd double check the wiring harness to both doors to be sure you aren't grounding a wire when they swing open
 

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Discussion Starter #4
We've been tracing and tracking all day. I'm getting pretty PO'd now. We quit for the night, seems the door issue went away all on it's own. It appeared to be vacuum related. At first I thought it might have something to do with the tilt away steering as it has a vac hose and it's activated via the driver door opening.... but that has never worked and the car never stalled like this before until we put in all the new goodies and I know they are all installed correctly as I followed a chart and did one hose at a time when it came to the lights.

UPDATE;

As of now, the doors opening and closing have no bearing on if the car stalls anymore, we pretty much replaced all vac lines on the car (got the entire kit from WCCC), so color codes were easy to follow. We found a small hole in the little plastic valve that's right behind the master brake cylinder, so we blocked that off and replaced the entire vac line from that to the manifold as well.

We've pretty much determined that it's some sort of electrical issue as the battery in the cougar is dead now and we've jumped it like 50 times today with my other car. The alternator is in great operating condition and was tested at the local car shop. However, we can't seem to keep the cougar running long enough now to charge the battery.

CURRENT DIAGNOSIS;

With the jumpers connected to the cougar and both cars running, the cougar NEVER stalls, can put it in drive or reverse, open and close head lights, all guages on the interior work, all the dash lights are on, all the fuses are new. Both doors can open and close and everything works great.

Then.... we remove the jumpers and in approximately 60 seconds the cougar goes from a perfect idle to CHUG COFF, STALL.... almost instantly dies. :(

We tried this scenario 3 times and each time is dies in about 60 seconds after removing the jumpers.

QUESTIONS ANSWERED;

Yes, the car had the points removed and a petronix ignitor installed. Has an MSD coil (brand new), new plugs, new wires.... almost the entire system is new.
 

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Never use the alternator to charge a dead battery as alternator damage may result. Alternators are not designed to run at full output for long periods of time. It takes several hours to charge a battery. Sounds to me like the battery may be bad and the alternator can't keep the voltage up at idle so the car dies. Whats the battery voltage at 1500 rpms, should be about 14v. If its below 13v the alternator is not charging at all.

Bill
 

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This is really odd - I'd take the battery and the alt in to be tested fully first to know where your at there, then begin diagnosing. Sounds like you may have an intermittent or crappy ground somwhere and you are wiggling it enough to get it flakey . I'd start by making sure the frame to block is well grounded - then batt neg to block cleaned/grounded, then check the ones under the dash so be sure they are solid. then how about the pertronix, whats your power source for it? I'd make sure all is well there again too.......
 

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+1 for dead battery/insufficient voltage.
Have you done any recent engine work to the car pertaining to the idle speed or timing?
 

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To determine if it is electrical in nature...start the car and turn on the headlights, if it dies, then it is electrical. Also, you can loosen the "positive" cable at the battery, start the car and while it is idling, pull the positive cable off the battery, if it dies I would suspect the alternator...just sayin....
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Never use the alternator to charge a dead battery as alternator damage may result. Alternators are not designed to run at full output for long periods of time. It takes several hours to charge a battery. Sounds to me like the battery may be bad and the alternator can't keep the voltage up at idle so the car dies. Whats the battery voltage at 1500 rpms, should be about 14v. If its below 13v the alternator is not charging at all.

Bill
I just bought the battery a few weeks ago (brand new from costco) was the best one they had, something like 850 crank amps..... but maybe from killing it and charging it so many times we've damaged it. I'll check as suggested and get back to you ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
This is really odd - I'd take the battery and the alt in to be tested fully first to know where your at there, then begin diagnosing. Sounds like you may have an intermittent or crappy ground somwhere and you are wiggling it enough to get it flakey . I'd start by making sure the frame to block is well grounded - then batt neg to block cleaned/grounded, then check the ones under the dash so be sure they are solid. then how about the pertronix, whats your power source for it? I'd make sure all is well there again too.......
Hummm, didn't think of that. We have a brand new line from the battery to the block so that should be ok. W

here do we look for the connection for the block to the frame? Is there a typical place this is done? The motor is newly rebuilt and may have never been grounded right.

As I failed to mention also, everything was running fine with the Petronix in / new msd coil etc just before we put in all the new hose lines / headlight actuators. Something seemed to have died after the newly installed items (some BIG time pressure / vacuum was made that the car never had before) I suspect it ruptured something somewhere else.... but we've traced all the way back now and can't find any leaks anywhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
+1 for dead battery/insufficient voltage.
Have you done any recent engine work to the car pertaining to the idle speed or timing?
Yeah, we added a brand new carb to the car, but as mentioned above, everything idled / drove fine up until we plugged in the new vacuum hose lines etc. I think all the newly created pressure in the system caused stress on the entire car somewhere and damaged something :(

BUT the battery ...yeah I'll go check that... it's new, but we mav have damaged it severely over all this charging and de-charging sequence.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
To determine if it is electrical in nature...start the car and turn on the headlights, if it dies, then it is electrical. Also, you can loosen the "positive" cable at the battery, start the car and while it is idling, pull the positive cable off the battery, if it dies I would suspect the alternator...just sayin....
At one point this did happen..... we started the car fine, then the second we opened the lights the car stalled and died instantly. However after messing around with several other things, we ran into the door problem killing the car and the light issue seemed to fix itself. The light opening and closing now cause no issues (currently)

Awesome! I'll try that alternator trick with the positive battery post ;) Cheers!
 

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I don't think you put too much pressure on the system, I think you either created a vacuum leak, (cracked hose/lose connection) or the new carb shook out some other adjustment issues.
Do you know what your timing and idle speed (in RPM's) is?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I don't think you put too much pressure on the system, I think you either created a vacuum leak, (cracked hose/lose connection) or the new carb shook out some other adjustment issues.
Do you know what your timing and idle speed (in RPM's) is?
timing is set to factory 6 degrees advanced... RPM at idle in park is 1000, in drive it's 600 as manual suggests. I've heard that's to low for nowadays gas though, so might boost it up a tad.
 

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From here, I would say bump your initial up to 10 degree's, and then re-set the idle and see how it does. Do you have a vacuum gauge?
 

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Just because that volt regulator is new does NOT mean it's good - the China made ones are very well known to have issues, but pulling the batt cable is a good way to quick check. The pertronix does not like to be under 12 volts - so if it's fed from a source that doesn't deliver that smoothly - you will have prob's. The factory block to ground is usually a cheesy little braided job near the back of the block on the passenger side - I'd replace it with a solid and well connected one.....ground gremlins are hard to chase
 

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Discussion Starter #19
OK UPDATE (JULY 30th);

Turns out Cedar Rapids Ia was correct (kinda). It was the alternator. However, a new alternator was installed and the same result happened. So, I picked around and noticed that some of the wiring to the alt may be wrong. Below is a pic of my old alternator's back side, it's exactly the same as the new one ;)

2 of the 3 wires I have available are easily installed as a rubber fitting insures that they can only go onto the "BAT" and "FLD" connectors. One is larger then the other so they in no way can be backwards.... however, the last one is plugged onto an unlabeled connector. See pic as I marked it.

This wire comes from the same place the battery post negative is mounted to the block for grounding, so I was assuming it was a ground wire and that it should be moved from where it is to the GND post on the alt... however I have found out that the GND post doesn't even need to be used.

So where does this extra wire go???? alternator4-800.jpg

The alternator is new again... #2 and the battery was at FULL charge and the car ran perfect again. Took it for a burn, ran fine, got home, let it cool down and tried to start it and it was dead again, so it's obvious the alternator is connected wrong.

I found the following post on another site;

FLD = Field (Red wire if my memory isn't playing tricks on me!)
STA = Stator (White wire, I think)
GRD = Ground

Both of these go to the regulator. Look at the plug shield on the regulator. SOME of these are marked and the wire colors should match the alternator end. The heavy black wire (BAT)with a colored stripe is the battery wire. It should end up connected to the battery post on the solenoid.

Some years have a wire on the ground post, some don't. The alternator will work either way because it will ground through the mount if the wire is missing. Sounds like yours doesn't use it.

BAT, FLD, & STA connections on the alternator should have plastic insolators on the post. The GRD will not have the insolator.

Bottom line is, hookup the fat wire to the larger screw post (BAT). Hook the other 2 wires to the FLD & STA posts. If you guess wrong, it won't fry anything but the alternator won't charge.

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Is this guy correct and this wire that appears to be a split wire and is grounded to my block supposed to be on the "STA" connector so that it CAN charge????

I don't want to fry something .....

any help would be wonderful :)
 

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That sounds correct - the stator post is what usually drive the electric choke, not always something there
 
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