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Discussion Starter #1
Over the past few months I have noticed what I think might be a rift developing in the Cougar Community. If you have been around long enough you might have noticed this as well. A lack of communication is often at the heart of a problem, so I thought that I might be able to at least start the conversation.

If you are new to Cougars, you might not be aware that the Cougar Club of America used to publish a real 4 color glossy magazine. And The Classic Cougar Network published a monthly on line magazine and had one of the most comprehensive web sites ever, devoted entirely to classic Cougars. And this web site, owned and operated by a devoted Cougar owner, provided instant answers to urgent questions.

But things change. The CCOA publishes a quarterly PDF that is a shadow of the old publication (Props to Mr. Eos for keeping at least that alive!). The TCCN is dead and gone, and this site is now owned by a conglomerate that thinks we are ricers...

ClassicCougarCommunity.Com was started when it became apparent that the wheels were not turning at the CCOA and that TCCN was winding down. The next shock came when this site was sold to the current owners. Maybe this site will go on forever, but if it does it won't be for love of the cars. The reason to be concerned is that this site now holds a huge store of the collected knowledge of our hobby. It would be a genuine tragedy to lose that, the way the contents of the TCCN were lost.

Frankly, it wasn't just so much about losing what we have, as it was the failure to move forward. Of course one of the first things we did was Ride of the Month. And the Dream Cougar Window Sticker Generator has been used now over 675 times. We also had to create new sites for the registries when the TCCN went down, and those are now up and running. The next project is a Hall of Fame to honor the most important Cougars ever built. None of this could be accomplished on this site.

So why the rift? I really can't put my finger on it exactly, but I believe that there is a sense that you have to chose sides in order to use one site or the other. From my view I can assure everyone that this is not the case. Bob, the moderator here is also one of the most frequent posters there, and I still post here, as I am doing now. Further, I count Bob as a friend and if any one else can fully appreciate what he does here, I would be the guy.

So what is the point? ALL of us are smarter than any of us. The more people participate, the better things get. There is no litmus test. These two sites do not encompass the entire community. Forgive me for sounding like a politician, but I am certain that we have more in common than we have in differences. There is nothing to be gained from creating differences where none should exist.

So now it is your turn. What do you think? If you are thinking it, then probably other people are as well. What would make this hobby more fun for you? How can we make it better?

(posted to both sites!)
 

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I, for one am new to both sites. Being new I, frequent as many venues as possible to learn all I can regarding this wonderful vehicle! As hard as I try, I can not possibly see why a rift of any type would result from people with the same love and passion for cougars would exist. Yes there have been people leaving one site for the other due to a misunderstanding or disagreement with board policies or how posts should be done. I completely enjoy both sites and the knowledge I have gained from both. Some times we need to remember we are adults and accepting that people act and react differently is all a part of daily life. Please continue the fantastic jobs you are doing and the quality efforts to promote quality information centers for us to use and enjoy! Thanks from a new guy, Rick
 

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I'm with Rick.
I always figured the two sites are different facets of the same gem. What I've never understood is why some feel the need to disparage one site or the other. Some folks will naturally appreciate one more than the other, but that doesn't make either of them "lesser".
 

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I haven't really seen a rift as such, but it seems strange that folks should feel they should choose one or other of the sites and abandon the other.

Sure, things have happened on here which some folks aren't keen on, but the site is what you make it yourself.
Not the supporting vendors, not the moderators, nor the owners.

The posters make the site a good 'un or a wrong 'un.

Personally speaking. I found MCNet first, not long after I bought my Cougar. Although I'm not as active as I was due to working hours and comedy internet connections, I always check in for a look see. I'll always have some loyalty to this place, and I'd hate to see it go under.

There should be no divide betwen any of the sites, they should all complement each other.
 

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I am on both sites, but I spend more time here, just as a matter of habit. I don't have as much of myself invested on the other one, but that doesn't mean I don't go and check it out..
 

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I am on both sites, but I spend more time here, just as a matter of habit. I don't have as much of myself invested on the other one, but that doesn't mean I don't go and check it out..
Me too woodsnake. I get what both sides are upset about. In the end we all still like our cougars no matter where you look for advice.
 

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I appreciate both sites. This one has more history thus the search function is a benefit. Also the newbies come here with basic questions that need to be answered to keep our love of Cougars alive. Remember we are all newbies at some point regardless of the topic. It is a shame that the new owners here have no "enthusiasm" for the breed so less likely to feel supportive which is not the case with CCC owned and run by one of best. Bob is a true enthusiast and does a good job here. If he was an owner I would feel different. Regarding CCC it would be nice to see the recent topic discussion "last post" in each section of CCC with out opening the section though like here and possibly even a recent topics for all sections at the bottom of the page. I am of the opinion that CCC will be the dominant site as its history grows. We have no control over MC.net and Bill runs CCC like a Democracy thus the results will be more "happy campers" Hope this one mans opinion is helpful in some way to someone.
 

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It's all about he cars! So many very cool cars! It is about friends that I Have not yet met in person and people helping others. I truely enjoy this sight and check it often. The other sight Is a plus! Two is almost always better than one. The more people I can befriend and her advice from the better. Neither is better or worse just different. Go Cougars!!!
 

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I started on the yahoo list service when we were just discovering electrons. I still miss Thursday night chat as it was interactive - like The Curb

TCCN was started to meet a need and take advantage of changing technology in the information publishing arena

MCN was started when bulletin board technology became readily available on the internet

TheCurb was started to meet the needs of a few fringe dwellers who where in search of the holy grail

the Classic Cougar Community meets a need to protect the Cougar Community if the owners of this site aren't getting a return for their investment and to fill a void that CCOA should have done years ago

The Classic Cougar Garage is available as a repository for technical stuff, because we have never been able to get sensible technical information, including restomod project stuff, into any of the forums

All have a purpose - and hopefully one day we can consolidate them and protect the information so we don't have to spend so much time away from our cars visiting the sites and reading posts
 

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`I am a member of both sites. Like Leon I started with what is Yahoo Classic Cougars. It was not Yahoo when I started. What was it, Geo-city? or something. I have not put much time in to Classic Cougar Community yet. But I see no reason for poor relations between the sites. I should spend more time over there. But with a poor connection, I don't spend as much time surfing things as I use to
 

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The cross-posting between ccc.com and mc.net is one byproduct I dislike in having two essentially identical forums.

P.S. The CCOA's newsletter also is available in print by postal delivery. The glossy magazine era, awesome as it was, lasted only 2.5 years of the newsletter's ~30 year run.
 

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I wasn't far behind Leon (post discovery of electrons! LOL), and was into this just a bit when dial-up was still king. Ebay wasn't even a fart in the wind at that point, and parts/info was very hard to get. With yahoo and Geo cities we at least had a way to pass along and swap ideas and that is what made (and makes) it valuable to this day. I would hate to lose any of the data and the comradery that we have all come to enjoy. I don't really like the idea of splitting between the 2 sites - although I just did post there after much debate about it, because I feel we have way to much invested here after all this time. If it were to go away, Id be disappointed that we couldn't have saved it. That's not to say I don't like having both - I feel like I have more vested here. Some disputes are really unecessary and I let it roll off like water from a ducks back. Lifes to short to worry about petty things. For the most part, everybody here seems like a bunch of like minded individuals on the car side of stuff - and that's what it's all about in the end. I think we have all been helped and helped each other out enough to warrant forking out a few bucks to keep it alive. If it takes a bit of advertising to keep it going - it shouldn't be a surprise - go turn on a TV if you think this is bad......
 

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Discussion Starter #13
My wife and I are in the process of downsizing to a much smaller house that needs extensive remodeling, so much of my weekend was spent away from the internet.

First off, my apologies to Mr. Eos if it sounded like I was not appreciative of your efforts. I do appreciate what you are doing, and commend you for it. My point was not to minimize what you are doing put to point to the overall direction that things were heading. I am print magazine junkie, and the forces at work on print are much stronger than the abilities of the CCOA to push back.

Lots of great comments here, and many kind words. Thanks!

Sportyworty, I think we have maybe addressed the site issues you mention. At the top left of every page is a link: View New Posts. This will display every thread that includes new posts since your last visit. This is done on a personalized basis, so once you have looked at a thread, it removes it from your list. There is also a link in the bottom right corner of every post: Top This will take you to the top of the page. IF this doesn't do what you are looking for, can you send me a PM and I will look into what you would like to see. If it is possible with our software, we would be happy to do it.

Back on topic, here are a few examples of the rift that I find puzzling. The Dream Cougar Window Sticker generator is huge project. No other collectible car has anything like it. It is set up on it's own site, not a part of the CCC Forums. The Registries are also set up as individual sites, not a part of the CCC forums. But when I look at who is using these sites, not much is coming from MC.Net. The Dream Cougar site actually got about as much traffic from the California Special Mustang site... I can only believe that some of the members here didn't feel comfortable going to those sites. Considering that those sites were created for the benefit of the entire Cougar community, that is a bit disappointing. Everybody is welcome.

The Classic Cougar Garage links to the Ride of the Month and even runs the same picture of the car on the top of their page. I seldom see that mentioned here, and I know that a bunch of members here wanted to have ROTM, including me. To be able to vote in that one, you do have to be a member at CCCF. There was no other way to keep the votes honest. However, you are welcome to join up just to vote on that if want.

And then there is this. Some of the new members at CCCF, for what ever reason, came there because they were not happy with things here. It ranges across the board from discovering that your post is under an ad for Find Women in Your Town, to the slowness of the page loads to what ever... Sometimes those folks share their experiences. This can lead to the "them and us" division of the community. You can't dispute that these folks have a legitimate gripe, but it can also lead to members here at MC.Net becoming defensive, and that can be divisive. I am going to take ownership for some of this. I can probably do a better job at making sure that any acrimony stays focused on the problems, and doesn't get personalized.

Finally, There are people on this site that have a lot invested. For example, and there are many, many, good examples, there is the ECI Bob build thread. It would have been less work for Bob to write a book. There are thousands of hours invested in that thread. So Bob has very good reason to be invested in this site. But if you know Bob, like I do, you know that he hates imperfection. <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]-->Bob knows that there are many things he would like to change and that the powers that be won't address. This leads to frustration. There are many others that also have big investments in this site, myself included. Lots of those folks are sometimes less than thrilled with the situation. You can sense it in the shortness of some of the posts...

Sometimes I think that that frustration with things that you can't change gets fixed where it doesn't belong. Occasionally that frustration gets pinned on the Curb, or CCCF, or the CCOA. Sometimes it comes out in the form of spelling corrections.... LOL! (Bob thanks for being a good sport!).
 

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Bill---When I click on your link to CCCC , this is what I get.
Frank

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=730><TBODY><TR><TD id=infoIconAlign vAlign=top rowSpan=2 width=60 align=left>
</TD><TD id=addressNotValidAlign vAlign=center width=* align=left><ID id=addressnotvalid>The address is not valid

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 

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Hey Bill. Thanks for posting. It has been noticeable to me and really annoying. I love classic cars. I have restored several mustangs in my time and in the last few years migrated over to Cougars. Opinions and viewpoints are diverse and something we all forget on occasion is that regardless of what "you" (being whomever) might feel or know is right every single one of us is entitled to do whatever the hell they want. Part of the wonderful freedoms we are afforded as members of "free" and somewhat democratic processes.

One of the recurring themes that seems to widen this "perception" rift between the two sites is some old school folks who feel entitled for whatever reason to poke at members of the community that perhaps aren't as well educated or informed or experienced. Hey here is the deal. Can't we all agree to just enjoy our cars together, share our experiences and if someone doesn't want our advice... Great.. move along. What went on with vince's car was shameful to be honest.. Peopel coming over to this forum simply to stir the pot and take little shots at him everytime he posted something.

I think that like any community of folks there is an "old guard" who are a tremendous wealth of information, knowledge and experience. However instead of openly sharing that experience and working together as a community a lot of it is sheltered, guarded and only discussed amongst a handful of other "in" clique folks. The fact that TCCN just disappeared with 15 years of hard work and effort put into it by hundreds of people and despite repeated offers to house the information elsewhere the site is a complete loss.. That's the mentality of some members of the community. That's what's driving the rift and to be hoenst I have no interest in being a part of that rift. I'll be restoring cars for another 30 years and I could really give a rats ass what paint code someone thinks my car should be :) What I do intend to do though is document my cars, perhaps other folks with some learnings about the research I do and at the cost of $60 a year Im pretty sure I can afford to keep my knowledge base up for many years to come.

When it's time to shut down rest assured, the information I have gathered will be made available to the (a) community because I'm doing this for the love of the cars. What someone thinks of me or my standing in a community is realy meaningless :)

Tolerance my friends. It's the reason that so many areas of the world today lie in ruins and war.
 

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Hey Bill. Thanks for posting. It has been noticeable to me and really annoying. I love classic cars. I have restored several mustangs in my time and in the last few years migrated over to Cougars. Opinions and viewpoints are diverse and something we all forget on occasion is that regardless of what "you" (being whomever) might feel or know is right every single one of us is entitled to do whatever the hell they want. Part of the wonderful freedoms we are afforded as members of "free" and somewhat democratic processes.

One of the recurring themes that seems to widen this "perception" rift between the two sites is some old school folks who feel entitled for whatever reason to poke at members of the community that perhaps aren't as well educated or informed or experienced. Hey here is the deal. Can't we all agree to just enjoy our cars together, share our experiences and if someone doesn't want our advice... Great.. move along. What went on with vince's car was shameful to be honest.. Peopel coming over to this forum simply to stir the pot and take little shots at him everytime he posted something.

I think that like any community of folks there is an "old guard" who are a tremendous wealth of information, knowledge and experience. However instead of openly sharing that experience and working together as a community a lot of it is sheltered, guarded and only discussed amongst a handful of other "in" clique folks. The fact that TCCN just disappeared with 15 years of hard work and effort put into it by hundreds of people and despite repeated offers to house the information elsewhere the site is a complete loss.. That's the mentality of some members of the community. That's what's driving the rift and to be hoenst I have no interest in being a part of that rift. I'll be restoring cars for another 30 years and I could really give a rats ass what paint code someone thinks my car should be :) What I do intend to do though is document my cars, perhaps other folks with some learnings about the research I do and at the cost of $60 a year Im pretty sure I can afford to keep my knowledge base up for many years to come.

When it's time to shut down rest assured, the information I have gathered will be made available to the (a) community because I'm doing this for the love of the cars. What someone thinks of me or my standing in a community is realy meaningless :)

Tolerance my friends. It's the reason that so many areas of the world today lie in ruins and war.
Amen, Brother!

Would take a lot to make my car back into what it started life as: 67, Two tone paint, 390, 3spd on the floor, GT. I do not have that kinda dough or the desire to do that, I just want to drive it and enjoy it.
Lloyd Bledsoe
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks Frank! I fixed it, but it will take awhile for everybody's cache to clear so the new link works right.
 

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Post #13, Post #15 :beer: Excellent. Interesting how different the other thread of the same name is.
 

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I visit both sites.
 
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