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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi all,

I've just started restoring a 68 XR-7and I'm a bit puzzled about the engine that's in it.
The previous owner told me it's a 289 2V. According to the VIN it should be a 302 4V (sounds a bit better to me! :D ).
I've been looking through the previous post here about this subject, which led me to the casting number (C8AE-6015 C and then 6 or 8 K14).
This tells me the block was designed/last modified in '68 and it should say something about the car it was meant for...
If the 1st digit of the second number is an 8 it would be cast in 68, 78 or another year ending with 8.
If it is a 6 it would be built in 76 or later right?
The thing is that the car should be built around December 07, 1967. I assume the block should be in by then, so I doubt it that the block is original.
Is there someone wise out there who can tell me what kind of engine I've got?
I've also checked the firing order, which is 15426378, but that doesn't say anything to me.

Thanks and regards,
Matthijs

P.S. for pics of my cat and the decoded VIN, look here:
http://www.hypertuning.nl/club/members.asp?user=223
 

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They did put 289 in some Ford products in 68, until they ran out of them, then put the 302 in there. They are so close, the parts stores books dont list a 289 for the 68 model year. Just a 302. I run into this all the time with my Fairlane (it has a 289 in it).
 

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C8 = 1968
A = Full-size Ford
6015 = Ford part number for engine block
C = change level

You are correct about your casting date. It is either 1968, 1978, 1988 or 1998 if the number is indeed an 8. If it is a six, it would be a 1976, 1986 or 1996. The date would be October 14th

Elsewhere on the engine, usually by the timing cover on the lower right side, you will see another set of numbers that are stamped into a machined surface of the block which will be the engine assembly date. The number will look like 2L29C (number, letter, number, number, letter) Year, Month, Date, and shift. In the above case, 2L29C translates to Novemver 29,1972 third shift. I know it has to be 1972 because they didn't make Clevelands in any other year ending with a 2. :p:

It looks like you have a replacement engine or block if your car build date is correct.

On a machined pad on the drivers side rear of the block you will find an abbreviated serial number of the car your engine was originally installed in. My Cougars reads 3F529520. That translates to 1973, Dearborn, and then the sequential number. Fords start the year with 100001 and go up from there. If more than 100000 Ford cars were built at that plant that year, the next numbers were 200001 and up. Mercury cars started with 500001 and went up from there. By the way, Mustangs and Cougars were built in
F = Dearborn MI
T = Metuchen NJ
R = San Jose CA.

Hope this helps you!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hmm, it looks like I'm not the only one who's confused about this. What I'm wondering is, they did not make any 289s in 68 did they, so that would mean the block I have must be a 302, since the part number indicates it was designed in 68, so it cannot be a 289 block (can it?).
But then, if it is a 302 could it be the original block? Assuming the 1st digit of the casting number to be an 8 (why did they use this silly font?), can it still be the original engine although the estimated build date of the car is December 7, 1967?
So the question is, did they stamp 68 casting numbers back in 67? Or could the estimated build date from the fomoco site VIN decoder be wrong?
Maybe I should go and find the engine serial # to find out for real.
As I uderstand this should be located on the back of the engine just below the driver side cylinder head. Would that be accessable without taking off anything?

Cheers!
Matthijs
 

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eng.

the book, cougar by the numbers
saids they put 20,601, 289 in 68.
at the end run they run out of 302,
and put in 289s
 

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Matthijs

The 289's were only installed in standardCougars in 68 and yours is an XR7 so it should have started at 302 - 4v.

Some other indications are

the 4V heads have 4V roughly cast into the top of the head. You can find it if you remove the rocker covers.

if the inlet manifold is genuine ford it is an idication that it probably started life as a 4V

The most difference is that 302 has a 3 inch stroke - 289 has 2.87 inch stroke (you could try rough measurement with a length of flexible tubing through the plug hole)

Sorry I can't be more precise but it is hard to tell without pulling it apart.
 

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oowwwwwww . now my head hurts:cry: but great info:D


DON
 

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Discussion Starter #9
bummer

I took a quick glance under the valve covers and it turns out to be a 2V. Bummer!
Now I'm thinking...
The block that is in needs to be rebuilt, since it produces bearing noise. The thing is, I just want a 302 4V, since that's supposed to be in the car. A conversion to 4V would mean I need a new camshaft, cylinder heads, rocker-arms, intake manifold, pushrods and everything else I forgot. That's gonna cost a bit much for now, so I've got two options now:
Get this one rebuilt and start building a 4V to put in later on OR Swap this one for a 4V and put on some hop up parts over time.

What would be wise? I'm aiming for an original looking car with at least 300hp, that's capable of showing all these hot shots with those BMWs, ricers and other no-class-so-called-sports-coupes my taillights when I want to.
But I also want it on the road asap, since I've got a very tiny garage (well, for the Dutch standards it's big, since you can get a car in (okay, a euro car, the cat fits barely) plus a couple of bicycles. A small garage just fits a car...).
So I was thinking, if I swap this engine for a rebuilt 302 4V with a nice performance cam, I can bolt on other hop ups, like cylinder heads, intake, carb, exhaust... later on, while the engine remains in the car right?
Anyone experienced in engine tactics who can tell me what would be wise to do? I cannot take out the engine myself, since I just don't have room to do it.

Cheers!
Matthijs
 

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If your engine has a date or 8K14 (November 14) and a casting # of C8AE (November 14, 1968) so the engine started out life as a 1969 302.

302's were a mid-year changeover in 1968, early cars had a 289, later cars (mine) came with a 302... I don't know the date this happened but can find out if someones interested.

To determine what engine your car came with, look at the last letter in the serial#. C=2V 289, A=4V 289, J=4V 302, F= 2V 302.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for all the great info! I'm pretty convinced the engine is a 302 2V built in 68.
Now one more question, how many hp's can I get out of it when I stay carbed and don't want to change the crankshaft, pistons, connecting rods and all?
So basically, I just want to change camshaft, rockers, heads, intake, carb and exhaust over time (maybe a few other tings as well).
Can I let the rebuild guys put in a performance cam while the rest remains as is?

Cheers!
Matthijs
 

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Listen, what "I" would do seeing you want it to look original, want it to make power, and do it as you go is to do the bottem end rebuild with a set of hyperutectic pistons, some good rod bolts and a set of World Products Windsor JR heads.

The heads are the single most power making thing your 302 needs and might as well be done right away besides they are cast iron durable and look stock except for a extra set of header bolt holes that you can block off if you want to and they flow enought to support the other mods down the road.

They will also run fine with every thing else being stock. Then as you go you can add the cam, manifold, headers and carb as you want to. Your asking so thats the way I see it. mm
 

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Hey, what out about those BMW cracks. I agree about most of them, but there are some that are ok. What about if you have a Bimmer and a 67 XR-7??? I sympathize with you on the engine. I tossed my original years ago when I didn't know better. Now I have a choice of a 68 302 or 67 289, but I'm going back with the original size engine. Good Luck


Sensei69:1poke:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Okay, I did not mean to offend anybody. It's just that bmws are nothing special around here and it's usually old people or a**holes driving them. I don't know the situation on your side of the big swimming pool however...
About the cat, I don't really need the engine to look original, I'll be cool anyway, you don't see many V8s around here, let alone a cougar (it's usually a stang if u see one..).
What I'm keeping in mind is I want a hot looking, rubber burning, heavy rumbling cougar to show off (hey, what are these cars for?). But I suspect when I get old and boring I'll be wanting to change it back to original, so I just want to do reverseable mods.
For now it's just good looks and plenty-o-power!

Cheers!
Matthijs
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Hmm, it sounds like you know Amsterdam better than I do. I've never known there were corvettes and vipers cruising past the marriott? Then again, I don't visit downtown Amsterdam often and when I do, I don't go by car. All these kamikaze bicycles out there, dug up roads as far as the eye reaches... I'd like to stay alive for a while ;-)
Btw, parking will cost you about $3 an hour (at least it used to...).
Nope, A'dam is not where my cat is gonna be seen a lot, I was more thinkin' about cruizing the blvd's along the coast. Since that's where the bikini's are :D

Cheers!
Matthijs
 

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I have to agree with Mark on this one , go with the heads , pistons and rod bolt, do the bottom end rebuild and go from there. Less time and can be built on:)
Good luck and let us know!
 

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Matthijs

I used to work for SPAR so spent a bit of time in A'dam and other parts of Netherlands. Used to hang out on weekends on Stadhouderskade (I think) and watch passing parade before heading to Vondelpark for free entertainment

For your engine I'd go for matched kit of cam, manifold, carb and heads (possibly Edelbrock Performaer) with a complete balance (essential), blueprint and conversion to stainless valves and hardened valve seats so you can run premium unleaded. Tri-Y headers are good but stay away from tubular tuned length unless you want additional noise and top end performance. This set up should be cruisable as well - you don't want to pass some of that scenerey too quickly. Some of the tuning shops that specialise in historic raceing around Spa Francorchamps and the Zandvoort should be able to help

With performance you also want to look good as well
 
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