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Contributing Sr Motorhead
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Discussion Starter #1
...for those of you who care.

Shortblock
351C-4V four bolt main block, bored .030 oversize
Brass freeze plugs
New cam bearings
TRW forged Boss 351 (domed) replacement pistons
Crank turned .010/.010
SFI-approved steel 'fluidampr'-type harmonic balancer
Connecting rods reconditioned using NOS Boss 351 hi-tensile rod bolts
Rotating assembly balanced to within 1/2 gram
Lunati hydraulic cam, .536/.562 224/234 duration @.050
Lunati hydraulic lifters
Crane hardened pushrods
True roller timing set
Hi-volume oil pump
Ford Motorsport oil pump driveshaft
Milodon baffled oil pan and pickup
Heads
D3ZE open chamber 4V heads, milled .020
Milodon one-piece stainless valves 2.16/1.71
Three-angle valve grind, mildly pocket ported
Lunati valve springs, retainers and keepers
Crane rocker stud conversion kit to adjustable rockers and guideplates
Harland Sharp roller rockers
Fuel distribution
Intake manifold - choice of either Edelbrock F351 high rise dual plane (predecessor to Performer but bigger ports), or Wieand X-cellerator single plane
Carb - Choice of Holley type 4150 3310-1 780cfm vacuum secondary, or Holley 750cfm double pumper
Ignition
Stock Ford Duraspark distributor triggering MSD 6AL
Ford Motorsport 9mm plug wires w/135* boots
Exhaust
Blackjack headers
3" aluminized pipe back to mufflers
3" Flowmaster 40 series delta flow mufflers
2-1/2" tailpipes, turned down 30* at rear valence

Transmission
C-6 automatic, rebuilt with B&M shift kit
choice of 3500 or 4000rpm stall TCI converters

Rear end
Ford 9" 3.91 gear, Detroit locker, 28-spline axles
Traction bars, homemade (to get the correct angle and length for our longer Cats)

According to the reference books I have, the Boss 351 domed pistons in my open chamber heads, with the .020 mill should yeild a compression ratio of 10.6 - 10.7:1. That is about as high as I wanted to go for a street/strip engine. If I were to have used quench 4V heads, the compression would have gone to near 12:1 !!! Good luck finding gas to feed that! I suppose I could go that high if I make this engine a race-only proposition, but the car is not ready to be retired - yet!

The car's weight should be close to 3750 pounds including driver. I'll be weighing it to get an accurate measurement once I get it to the track. I last weighed it over 18 years ago, so my recollection is a bit fuzzy, but I think it was around 3750 pounds before going on a weight-savings program. I have removed over 100 pounds alone by eliminating the front bumper reinforcement and 5mph isolators, and further removed weight from rustproofing and sound deadening carpet underlayments.

Does anyone have a good desktop dyno program they can plug all of that in to? I'm hoping to get it all balanced to run around a 12.0 at the track. The engine, the way it was before some of the new goodies, ran 13.00 in my buddy Keith's 71 Mach without even adjusting carburation or timing. He had blown up the motor in his car, and my engine was just sitting there, so.... It only made eight passes in his car. His own new engine was ready for the next week of racing. I will have more rear gear, more converter, better cam (now), bigger valves...

So, what do y'all think? :p:
 

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Sounds awesome man!
Only thing i have a suggestion on and well i am no expert but hey..the B&M shift kit i would go with a Transgo...but thats me.
Other than that i will try to find my Desktop Dyno disc and see what i can come up with:)
 

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Contributing Sr Motorhead
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Discussion Starter #3
The shift kit was installed 20+ years ago. I went with the 'any-time, any gear' full manual control of 1st and 2nd gear, but retaining full automatic properties in Drive. The transmission downshift linkage was not on the car when it last drove because the carb I was using at the time did not have the Ford kickdown lever so I had to manually downshift when passing. I learned real quick not to pull it all the way down into 1st at highway speeds when passing. I didn't realize at the time that it would drop all the way into 1st at 60mph! Yowza!, whatta ride!! The back tires basically locked up, causing the backend of the car to start hopping all over the place, and smoke was billowing off my poor abused tires until the engine rpm could catch up to the tires.

I'm going to be rebuilding the trans (again) just because it is out, and I want to check out tolerances and stuff better since the last rebuild was kinda rushed. We've also learned a few tricks to do to the internals to help it shift better and quicker and prolong its life behind a serious motor..

The 'desktop dyno' program I have is real lame and doesn't even cover a car as heavy as mine. Also no inputs for camshaft, compression... Like I said, real lame and really nothing better than guesswork.
 

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Sounds truely awesome, I had fun just going down the list and checking off what parts I recognised .................LOL.......................LMAO..................who am I trying to kid, I only recognised the stock things like, 4V, exhaust, etc, well not that bad, if its bored out 030, how much extra horsepower does that give you. Oh, and check out Australian web sites for that dyno stuff, I found one the other day and it had alot of stuff to fill in, I gave up.................Leon might know of one.
 

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Hey there,
I had my 70 in the twelves with a milder combo that that. You shouldn't have any problems running what you want with this setup.
 

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Contributing Sr Motorhead
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5,470 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Ooops,

Ooops, I forgot to mention the Milodon windage tray. That is supposed to be good for another 10-15hp. Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

Oh, here's a trivia question for you about Clevelands... :1poke:

What is the difference between a regular Cleveland and a Boss 351 oil capacity? Which part(s) are different, if any?
 

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I'm with 72cat, Milo. I don't recognize much of it but it sure sounds impressive. Glad to hear you're getting that one back together.

Was that Comet on your list before? I don't remember it.
 

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MILO... YOU DA MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bet you can't wait to get her on the Road...... Better get an extra set of tires..... at least for the rear LOL


Don
 

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Contributing Sr Motorhead
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5,470 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Chas,
Yes, the Comet has always been on the list. What is new to you is PartsCat, although it might not remain a parts car since it is in relatively good condition. Although I sold a bunch of parts to someone (who shall remain nameless) that I could use on this car... ;) I might turn it into a 'Summer Beater' for the wife. She's afraid to bring out her Mach for fear of something happening to it.

Trivia question responses? :1poke: What, no responses? :(

OK, the only different component to the Boss 351 oiling system was that the dipstick was calibrated for six quarts of oil instead of the standard five quarts. No special pan or anything else. The oil pan is a good guess, although the only unbaffled pans were the 2Vs (including the 351M/400) and the M-code 4V. The Boss 351, 351HO and the Q-code 4V all had baffled oil pans. For those who don't know about such things, the oil pans were baffled to prevent the slosh of oil onto the crankshaft during episodes of 'spirited driving'. Churning up that sloshing oil wastes horsepower. Every little horsepower helps!!!
 

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I have Dyno 2000 and can run it for you. I need cam event timing to do it, should be on your cam spec card in the form of "Intake valve opens at_____, closes at ______" and will need to know if those specs are at .050 or at .006. Also need cam grind centerline and instaled centerline.

Royce
 

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Contributing Sr Motorhead
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5,470 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Royce,

Cam specs are:
Intake open 5*btdc, closes 39*abdc
Exhaut open 54*bbdc, closes 0*atdc
112* centerline which makes this cam 5* advanced
timing figures obtained at .050 tappet lift

.536/.562"lift, 290/300adv dur, 224/234 dur @.050 tappet lift

Thanks!!!
 

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Contributing Sr Motorhead
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Discussion Starter #13
Royce? Oh, Roooyyyyyce? :1poke: ;) :) :p: :1zhelp: :D
 

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Torque peak is at 4400 and is 450 ft-lbs. Horsepower is 460 at 6000.

I tried installing the cam straight up and it picked up 10 horsepower and 20 ft-lbs.

Best results were with the single plane intake and 780 carb. I also guessed you are running headers with mufflers and valve sizes are 2.19 / 1.66.
 

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Contributing Sr Motorhead
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Discussion Starter #15
Royce, yes on the headers, 3" pipes back to 2-chamber Flowmasters, then 2-1/2" tailpipes. Valve sizes are 2.19/1.71. Probably running single plane and 780 vac sec carb, but have dual plane if it feels too soggy on the street.

Any idea what it would run at 3800 pounds, 3.91 gears, and 28x10 slicks? Either the 3500 or 4000 stall converter?

Thanks for the dyno work...! :D I'm gonna be having me some serious fun!!!
 

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It's a peaky curve on the torque / HP. A 4000 converter for sure. I bet it runs a low 12 / high 11 with that combination. It's not what I would consider a daily driver combination but with the 4000 converter will be streetable to some degree. Don't expect any vacuum.

It might like more gear but the 3,91 is a place to start.
 

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Contributing Sr Motorhead
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Discussion Starter #17
WOW!!!

Royce,

What 'desktop dyno'-type software do you have? Yours seems to be a full-option type as opposed to the basic one I have access to. I might want to pick it up so I can fiddle with engine components, etc.

Sheesh, I wasn't figuring on AlphaCat's engine having that much power/torque. :p: ;) :D I might want to detune the engine a bit for the street -- like going with the old Edelbrock F351 dual plane intake, 3500 converter, etc. I don't want to go much steeper than the 3.91 with the rear gear since I will still be driving the car on 55mph roads. I like the sound of a good exhaust note from a beastly motor as much as the next motorhead, but winding much higher than 3000 at cruising speed is not exactly something I look forward to.
 

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I would recommend a smaller cam to make the torque curve flatter. Something like a 224 / 224 at .050 with a 110 LSA will have tons of midrange torque and allow a lower converter speed. A solid lifter cam will help too compared to a hydraulic for better torque while maintaining upper RPM power. It still would not have very good vacuum though. Wider LSA's give better vacuum but kill some midrange torque generally speaking.

I have Dyno 2000, it is available from Summit Racing.
 

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Powerful combination.
I have to agree with Royce on the smaller cam and the solid lifter option.
Seems like a lot of people like to really squeeze the cleveland at the high revs and forget about it's midrange capabilities through cam choice.
Not that you are a newbie. Just putting my general 2 cents in.
 

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Contributing Sr Motorhead
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Discussion Starter #20
If I gotta, I gotta. *shrug*

Too late now on the cam choice. I'll have to live with it. My only other option I have right now is to stick with the old Crane Fireball cam that's in it now. .503/.508 lift, 300/330 adv dur (don't know the @.050 any more) All that cam did was rrrrump-rrrrump -- sound badass, but not really do anything besides suck gas! My next cam, if there is going to be one, is going to be a mild Crane street roller!

As soon as the new timing set shows up, the engine goes back together. This time I'm sealing all of the openings to avoid having another 'V-8 mousie condo'! LOL

My tranny rebuild kit showed up today, so now I have that chore in front of me. Really, it isn't all that bad. I'll have it apart and back together in a couple of hours even with Terry's 'special/secret' C-6 internal mods. Terry is also going to set up the 3.91 Detroit locker for me.
 
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