Ok, I've decided I want a hood scoop on my 68 Cougar. I also want it to be functional. I've found a hood scoop I like for $130. Although the air cleaner that makes it functional is like $500. He called it Ram Air. Are there was to make a functional hood scoop without having to fork out that kind of money? I've been told a lot of different things, one person said buy a fiberglass hood and install the scoop on it. Another said install it on your current hood and buy the Ram Air unit. A guy I have a class with said don't buy the Ram Air build you own unit. So, I'm tiring to get some direction, from someone who has done this before. Are their kits I can buy? What's my best bet with the hood, get a fiberglass one or install the scoop on my current one. Some Advice would be very helpful. Thanks, Jason
68 Hood Scoop Advice
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Jason,
There were two hood scoops available on 68 Cougars, the "Bubble" early GT-E 427 style (non-Ram Air BTW The "Bubble" can be made into a functional Ram Air) and the "CJ Eliminator" style on the later 428CJ Cougars.
They are both available in reproduction, but I've heard bad things about them warping and such. The originals and are a better fiberglass and bolt onto the metal hood. You don't need a figerglass hood. You should be able to find an original "CJ" scoop for around $130.
What engine and air cleaner do you have? On my 428CJ the air cleaner base is LARGE with a smaller lid and filter inside (same size as the Hi-Po 289 lid BTW). The flapper assembly and rubber seal sit on top of that. The hole is fairly small, just large enough for the raised portion of the lid and flapper.
Unless you want it to look Factory, you don't need all that. Use your existing base, find an air cleaner and lid that will fit inside and flush to the top of your base. Make up your own seal with rubber or foam that fits to the base instead of the lid, and cut a hole in the hood.
The only problem is it won't have the flapper, but it will be just as effective.
Tim B
1969 XR7 428 CJR convertible
http://members.aol.com/timbrands/index.html
There were two hood scoops available on 68 Cougars, the "Bubble" early GT-E 427 style (non-Ram Air BTW The "Bubble" can be made into a functional Ram Air) and the "CJ Eliminator" style on the later 428CJ Cougars.
They are both available in reproduction, but I've heard bad things about them warping and such. The originals and are a better fiberglass and bolt onto the metal hood. You don't need a figerglass hood. You should be able to find an original "CJ" scoop for around $130.
What engine and air cleaner do you have? On my 428CJ the air cleaner base is LARGE with a smaller lid and filter inside (same size as the Hi-Po 289 lid BTW). The flapper assembly and rubber seal sit on top of that. The hole is fairly small, just large enough for the raised portion of the lid and flapper.
Unless you want it to look Factory, you don't need all that. Use your existing base, find an air cleaner and lid that will fit inside and flush to the top of your base. Make up your own seal with rubber or foam that fits to the base instead of the lid, and cut a hole in the hood.
The only problem is it won't have the flapper, but it will be just as effective.
Tim B
1969 XR7 428 CJR convertible
http://members.aol.com/timbrands/index.html
Thank you
Thanks for the advice. I have a 302 and the standard air cleaner right now. I like the idea of getting a rubber seal and just making it functional myself, but I afraid it's going to look too "homemade" I guess. Do you know where I can find a flapper assembly similar to yours? The other question I have is making is, if I make it functional is it going to do much for my car? I know it sounds like a silly question but my father and I had a great "talk" about it this afternoon. Neither knows too much about cars, just the basics. He doesn't think it's going to do enough for the 302 improving performance to be worth cutting on the hood. I'm more of the idea, its there why not use it. Either way the scoop is going to be put on. Although the question is whether to make it functional or not. I would be very grateful for your input again. Thanks Jason
Thanks for the advice. I have a 302 and the standard air cleaner right now. I like the idea of getting a rubber seal and just making it functional myself, but I afraid it's going to look too "homemade" I guess. Do you know where I can find a flapper assembly similar to yours? The other question I have is making is, if I make it functional is it going to do much for my car? I know it sounds like a silly question but my father and I had a great "talk" about it this afternoon. Neither knows too much about cars, just the basics. He doesn't think it's going to do enough for the 302 improving performance to be worth cutting on the hood. I'm more of the idea, its there why not use it. Either way the scoop is going to be put on. Although the question is whether to make it functional or not. I would be very grateful for your input again. Thanks Jason
Jason,
The debate of the effectiveness of the stock set up is a long one. The benifits of air from the outside of the engine bay are two fold. One the air is a good bit cooler than the air in the engine bay. Therefore it is more dense; you are getting more O2 per unit of volume. Two is the "ramming effect". A engine is a air pump. It sucks air in and pumps it out. Anything you can do to help this creates power. I'm going to use positive and negative numbers to make a point. Lets say that the engine sucks air at a negative 5 ( -5 ). Now normally that engine would have to take air from the engine bay which for our porposes is stationary, (0). So negative 5 plus 0 is neg 5. But lets add a scoop that at 60 mph provides air at possitive 2. Neg. 5 plus pos. 2 equals neg 3. So the engine doesn't have to suck as hard to get the air it needs. As you can see w/ the possitive pressure (above atmospheric) and the cold air, a ram air hood can help in the HP area. My question is, which is better in the way of providing positive pressure? A scoop in the middle of the hood or two small scoops on the front face of the car (al la thunderbolt...missing high beam lights)? If you don't know what I mean....check out fordmuscle.com and look in the archives for the write up on the ram air set up they used to break into the 12s w/ 289. BTW, I'm looking into a scoop on my hood as well, can you tell?
Austin
The debate of the effectiveness of the stock set up is a long one. The benifits of air from the outside of the engine bay are two fold. One the air is a good bit cooler than the air in the engine bay. Therefore it is more dense; you are getting more O2 per unit of volume. Two is the "ramming effect". A engine is a air pump. It sucks air in and pumps it out. Anything you can do to help this creates power. I'm going to use positive and negative numbers to make a point. Lets say that the engine sucks air at a negative 5 ( -5 ). Now normally that engine would have to take air from the engine bay which for our porposes is stationary, (0). So negative 5 plus 0 is neg 5. But lets add a scoop that at 60 mph provides air at possitive 2. Neg. 5 plus pos. 2 equals neg 3. So the engine doesn't have to suck as hard to get the air it needs. As you can see w/ the possitive pressure (above atmospheric) and the cold air, a ram air hood can help in the HP area. My question is, which is better in the way of providing positive pressure? A scoop in the middle of the hood or two small scoops on the front face of the car (al la thunderbolt...missing high beam lights)? If you don't know what I mean....check out fordmuscle.com and look in the archives for the write up on the ram air set up they used to break into the 12s w/ 289. BTW, I'm looking into a scoop on my hood as well, can you tell?
Austin
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2,691 Posts
eBay
Here's one for sale on eBay for a Torino (different seal):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1823854742
As for what will it do for you, it all depends. In a vintage Car & Driver test of a 69 428CJ Mach1 they taped off the scoop, the difference was 2/10th and 2 mph slower. (BTW Q and R code 428s had the same 335 hp, but they were conservative dyno #s........and there isn't a ram air effect in a dyno room!)
What will it do for a 302? If you have a 600CFM carb, cam and other upgrades it probably would be beneficial. If you don't want to cut the hood there is a under bumper set-up I've seen (ala Olds W-30 442).
Tim B
Here's one for sale on eBay for a Torino (different seal):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1823854742
As for what will it do for you, it all depends. In a vintage Car & Driver test of a 69 428CJ Mach1 they taped off the scoop, the difference was 2/10th and 2 mph slower. (BTW Q and R code 428s had the same 335 hp, but they were conservative dyno #s........and there isn't a ram air effect in a dyno room!)
What will it do for a 302? If you have a 600CFM carb, cam and other upgrades it probably would be beneficial. If you don't want to cut the hood there is a under bumper set-up I've seen (ala Olds W-30 442).
Tim B
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676 Posts
Under Bumper Ram Air
"If you don't want to cut the hood there is a under bumper set-up I've seen (ala Olds W-30 442). "
I've always wondered about the under bumper setup, it doesn't seem safe to me. I'd be worried about pulling in a bunch of water, snow or debris with an intake that low. But it would make for a nice sleeper setup.
Neal
"If you don't want to cut the hood there is a under bumper set-up I've seen (ala Olds W-30 442). "
I've always wondered about the under bumper setup, it doesn't seem safe to me. I'd be worried about pulling in a bunch of water, snow or debris with an intake that low. But it would make for a nice sleeper setup.
Neal
We're talking about an air cleaner and a hood here so why not have two setups.
Build a ram air setup with a second hood or even a fiberglass hood and keep the original setup for the sake of being stock if you want that look for another time.
dablack mentioned the ram air box which I think is an interesting solution but nowhere near as cool looking as a scoop
http://www.ramairbox.com/
Build a ram air setup with a second hood or even a fiberglass hood and keep the original setup for the sake of being stock if you want that look for another time.
dablack mentioned the ram air box which I think is an interesting solution but nowhere near as cool looking as a scoop
http://www.ramairbox.com/
I'm putting together the ram air setup drawing air from the valance area. A couple of screens on the duct ends takes care of debris and water/snow is not going 3 ft uphill in the duct, not enough pressure for that to be a consideration. I'm adding a scoop for the "look"
The primary benefit, as mentioned is cooler air, which adds power throughout the powerband (there is a formula for his which I forget). The speed needed to see a real ram effect is up there.
On the Mach1 test they cut off the cool air source with the taping of the scoop, so the actual percentage of the gain due to strictly the ram air vs cooler air was not established.
The primary benefit, as mentioned is cooler air, which adds power throughout the powerband (there is a formula for his which I forget). The speed needed to see a real ram effect is up there.
On the Mach1 test they cut off the cool air source with the taping of the scoop, so the actual percentage of the gain due to strictly the ram air vs cooler air was not established.
My plan for a ram air is as follows:
Normal 14" air cleaner
This lid:
http://www.knfilters.com/universal/X-stream.htm
A rubber lip around the lid that seals flush with the hood
I think it'd work better than the way the factory has it set up, since the air would go straight in (and from the sides) rather than in then around into the sides.
I need to check clearances and such. But I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
Normal 14" air cleaner
This lid:
http://www.knfilters.com/universal/X-stream.htm
A rubber lip around the lid that seals flush with the hood
I think it'd work better than the way the factory has it set up, since the air would go straight in (and from the sides) rather than in then around into the sides.
I need to check clearances and such. But I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
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