[Peter Lynn]

My '67 has just started starting with the key in either the ignition, start or accessories position in the switch. When I turn it to accessories, as well as firing, the starter remains engaged. I just fitted a new ignition switch, key and barrel set because of this, thinking it might have been a faulty ignition switch. All I have done is to solder a new wire from the green/ red terminal at the switch as a hot wire to run an igniter ll which I am trying to install. It does turn off ok, for what that's worth! Is it possible I created a short while making a hole through the firewall grommet for the new igniter wire?
Thanks for your help!

Peter Lynn

 

[KTL cat]

Your Solenoid is hanging up bang on top of it

 

[towcat]

It sounds like you have connected to the starter solenoid wire and is putting power in every position except off, undo the connection and see if this is a fix.

 

[Peter Lynn]

Thank you KTL cat. That fixed it. What is strange is that I wondered about that same thing earlier today, and actually swapped solenoids, but when that did not seem to fix it, I began to wonder. Guess it goes to show you can fix these cars with a hammer!

Best Wishes

Peter

 

[Peter Lynn]

Hi Towcat, and thanks for your very useful (and believe me, not discarded) fix. Problem solved, but thanks for the help!

Cheers

Peter Lynn

 

[Lars M. Hansen]

Hi Peter.

I would look at the starter relay, Why have you installed the hot wire to the ignitor II.

Lars

 

[xr7g428]

Peter, as an FYI.

There are two small posts on the starter solenoid. One, sometimes marked I and located on the starter side of the solenoid, is there to supply 12 volts to the ignition while the starter is turning. The other, sometimes marked S, is the input signal from the key switch that causes the solenoid to engage. If you unplug the wires going to these two posts, and then get them backwards you will get something like the problem you describe. With the key off, nothing happens, but as soon as you turn the key to the on position starter will engage, and then stay engaged until you turn the key back to the off position.

 

[Bad69cat]

The red/green wire is the feeder to your coil I think? I'd find a solid 12v run to your ignitor instead - but that isn't your trouble for starter just an observation. As Bill says - double check that you haven't reversed the I and S terminals.....good luck

 

[Peter Lynn]

Again, thanks to everyone for their advice with this. Battery on charger at present so I have to wait for that before going further.

Bad69cat, at the risk of appearing ignorant, Where can I find another good 12v source? I was trying to keep this tidy by wiring it through the ignition switch pigtail, and I chose the red green wire because it was on the same terminal as the pink resistance wire, but not subject to the problem of the pink,and therefore occupying the only hot terminal on the switch. I see what you mean about it going to the coil. Also the schematics I am working from seem to contradict themselves here (for the '67 Mustang). The alternator itself has been replaced by a previous owner with a Bosch unit with integral regulator and the wires have been cut at the regulator multiplug so I could stand some more help! I sure did not have this trouble connecting the igniter in my '69.
Lars, sorry I was not clear about that. I was not actually going to hot wire it it to the igniter- I meant to the coil!.

Cheers

Peter

Peter

 

[Bad69cat]

Ooops - never mind, I think I just realized that is probably the right spot after all....the + side of the coil would be the same thing ultimately! That would make a tidy connection. Keep in mind that there are differences in Mustang and Cougar wiring harness' - particularly XR7's

 

[Peter Lynn]

Hi Bad69cat,

OK! Thanks for your help on this. Looks like I may need to buy a new battery too! I would expect there to be differences in the harnesses between Cougar and Mustang, but when there are differences between '67 Mustang and '67 Mustang circuits it starts to get more confusing still. I have spent some time here using search dealing with the igniter topic, and just wish Pertronix would do something about their instructions, even if only online!
Thanks again

Peter

 

[Peter Lynn]

Sorry Gents!
The problem has returned! I had planned on not fitting the Igniter until this issue had been sorted out to keep things simple. After the solenoid banging solution, and after I fitted the Igniter, the problem returned. It ran beautifully with a lusty 12v running through my new 12v coil, but 20 minutes after, while the motor was off, and I was using the CD player, the starter suddenly started cranking again and it tried to fire, which startled me no end...almost a "Christine" touch. I fitted a new solenoid- the third, but that got me nowhere. I pulled the ignition switch and pigtail out, (new switch and lock barrel had been fitted the previous day) and tried testing the wiring around there with a multimeter. I have four wires coming from the pigtail, yellow, pink, black/green and (red/ white?), but no sign of the red/blue that is, according to one circuit diagam I have, supposed to be there, but the red/blue at the solenoid is working just fine thank you!
Any further input would be gratefully received as I am running short on sanity and possible reasons why this is happening.

Many thanks!

Peter

 

[Bad69cat]

Well Peter that bites the big one! I'm not 100% sure on 67, but I don't think they changed much, so here's an overview to make sure we are apples to apples: The PINK wire should be the resistor wire that reduces the voltage to the coil when the ignition switch is in the run position. It's connected to the RED GREEN STRIPE wire that then leads to the coil from the back of the 4 pin connector and then through a 3 pin connector.

When the ignition switch is in the start position, the resistor wire is bypassed so that the coil receives a full 12 volts to assist in the engine starting
The BROWN wire should transition into two RED GREEN STRIPE wires at the back of the 4 pin connector. One should lead to the coil (Through the 3 pin) and the other to the PINK resistor wire, then on to the ignition switch. The BROWN wire originates at the rear most small terminal on the starter solenoid and is energized only when the ign. switch is in the start position and the solenoid is activated. The BROWN wire's only purpose is to deliver the full 12 volts to the coil when the starter is engaged and the ign. switch is in the start position. It should not be connected to the ign. switch itself. It should only run to the 4 prong connector. The yellow one is the one throwing me? I see it in the diagram but dissappears into the main loom..?

The center post on the back of the ignition switch is the accessory terminal and is hot only in the run or accessory positions.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

 

[Peter Lynn]

With you so far and that's exactly what I have. In my diagram the yellow becomes black/ yellow then disappears into the S terminal in the voltage regulator. Could the pigtail at the ignition switch be shorting across the switch connectors? I have examined the pigtail, including removal of it's access panel but cannot see anything amiss there. I'm wondering it is going to be one of those Doh! things- you know- when you find it you can't believe it was something so simple! Thanks for your email, by the way.

 

[Bad69cat]

You know - there was one time I had an issue with the starter staying engaged and it was due to the spacing of the starter itself. Ford did make a few variations of the 2 bolt starers and some parts stores sell Spacer plates to remedy that (about 2 washers thick). What happens is the thing drives into the ring gear to far and can't extract itself. You could try a few washers behind it for a quick test if you think that may be an issue, but you didn't say anything about a new starter so that might be wishful thinking. Kinda hard to believe you would have 2 bad switches or a short in there at this point but who knows...? It is a bit perplexing for sure

 

[Peter Lynn]

Hi Mike,
Yes, I have read about this, and thank you for the email. The starter is about 4 years old and if not in need of spacers, there may be another internal issue, but I am wondering how that would account for the starter engaging on accessories! I have an Auto electrician coming tomorrow afternoon to take a look, which I would prefer not to have to do, but I have almost ruined myself with this, and I enjoy the challenge of untangling problems like this- the typical masochist! In the meantime I will soldier on, and see what gives. At least I know the starting circuit intimately now!

Regards

Peter

 

[Peter Lynn]

To all those who offered their help and suggestions, , especially Mike, my thanks. Turns out it was the Neutral safety switch! You know when you think it must be ANYTHING other than... but it IS dammit!

Cheers

Peter

 

[Bad69cat]

LOL - Well, I'm still puzzled on the accy starting part of it, but I hope you have it solved. Could have been a few different issues and not any one thing I guess. >keeping my fingers crossed!< The motor gods were smiling on me this weekend too - I finally got the exahust woes taken care of on my truck - that's another story I'll tell on the F150 forum. Those guys already feel my pain on it....

Sounds like you need a nice cold Coopers for a battle well fought! Cheers