[Karl Storrer]

Hi, I'm new here and I'm starting a project of a 1973 Mercury Cougar powered by a Ford Racing 460 Stroker and fully roller. I was wondering if a 6R80 or even a 6R140 auto trans would fit in that engine that has a torque estimated in 700 ft/lb and power around 750HP @ 6000RPM. I'm projecting a car to drive in extreme high speed in German Autobahns! By my calcs, a car with 27" tire height, 3.25 rear ratio and a .67 Overdrive ratio, it should (on theory of course) @ 5000rpm reach 185MPH. I'm pretty sure the engine I'm researching is able to do that. If I beat a stock E63 AMG Mercedes, I'll be happy. The question is if the transmission and the rest will stand! If you guys heard or know something like that from another insane like me, please let me know!

 

[johnboy]

You sure stepped in it now! we all are avowed insane at different levels...

when do we get a ride...:lolani:

Jean

oh, and welcome to the insanity...

 

[Karl Storrer]

Well, Germany is a little bit far from Quebec, but if my car works like I planning, I get there quickly !

By the way, I've been insane and drinking gasoline since I was born !

 

[leonbray]

why not use a ZF 6 speed - as used by Ford Australia behind the 5.4l 32V mod motor and Coyote. It would be a lot easier to use a Gear Vendors overdrive but you only really have 4 gears. Have you thought about a manual and T56 - again easier than a modern electronic box

Going to be interesting to see what top end you get out of a 73, given the amount of drag you will have from pushing a brick through the air at that speed.

I suggest you might want to use twin turbos. There have been some really interesting posts around twin turbo set ups in the past. Unfortunately we haven't seen one finished to know how it went.

If you beat an E63 (with the 250kph limiter removed) I'll buy you a beer. Hopefully you wan't get it done before April 1

 

[cougarshaman]

Here are some calculators you can use to help steer your choices.
http://www.bgsoflex.com/auto.html

The problem with the 73 is that it has hectares of frontal area and practically no aero help at all. So, you'll be on an uphill battle anywhere north of 240kph.
Plus, the E63 will be steady at those speeds. The Cougar is really not made for those kind of forces in its factory configuration.

 

[Karl Storrer]

Well, I cannot change the car, because I have it and it is already under restoration!
But I believe it will work, because I had another XR7 1974 powered by a stock 460 V8, and it was much more heavier than this 73,
and with a little work in the engine (429 cylinder heads, Holley 750, new camshaft, higher compression, MSD, etc), harder suspension, with a C6 transmission
on 2.56 rear ratio, 255/50-16 tires, I was able to drive it around 140MPH steady! This was in 1995! That 460 had no more than 300HP.
That car wasn't so fast in 1/4 mile (15.2 @ 103 MPH), but was excellent on highway. I didn't believe myself the potential that car had !
Now, I know a AMG Mercedes have millions of dollars on research, but the only thing it has in its favor is aerodynamics. The E63 engine has 525HP,
the torque is 465 ft-lb @ 5200RPM, It weighs 3883Lbs and a rear ratio of 2.65 and .82 on sixth gear (the gear when comes the top speed).
My rear ratio is 3.25, the AOD or 6R80/140 has .67 on the last gear, so the final gear ratio will be closer to AMG.
My engine (Ford Crate Stroker Big Block) will be a lot more powerful than the Mercedes 6.2.
The engine manufacturer claims it has 750HP @ 6000RPM and torque around 700 ft-lb @ 4500RPM, and it has a fair idle and a good vacuum !
The stock 1973 Cougar (with the cast iron 351C) weighs 300lbs less than Mercedes.
With the new engine, surely it will be lighter (Aluminum intake manifold and cylinder heads + the hooker headers, lighter than the original exhaust manifold)
So, the only thing agaisnt me is aerodynamics! I'm making a hard brake and suspension improvment too!
(12.88" front and 12.19" rear Wilwood disc brakes), 285/40-18 Z rated tires, front and rear sway bars, etc.
I know is too hard to beat a car with a company like Mercedes-Benz behind it.
But anyway, I'm making my car and soon I'll see what happens !!
Even if I won't beat the E63, I will have an interesting toy on hands!
Thanks!

 

[1969XR7Vert]

...has hectares of frontal area...

I knew a girl like that once...

P.S. Andy, what's the deal? You haven't chimed in on my build thread in while. What'samatta, huh? You no lika my wicked pissah cool car? :buck:

 

[cougarshaman]

I'm not wicked pissah cool enough to comment anymore! haha.

Karl, good luck. Sounds like a great project.

 

[Karl Storrer]

Thank You Cougarshaman, it's a great project and a great spend of time and money on it too !!!!!

By the way do you know some road without speed limits in US ?

 

[cougarshaman]

We have time trails here in the US for top speed, but only on closed course. For some period of time, some areas had no speed limit, but not for long.

You're very very lucky to have the Autobahn!

 

[Karl Storrer]

Yes, but there are a bunch of gay/greeners/communists/assholes/Toyota drivers politicians here trying to put speed limits on Autobahns (80MPH) in the name of fuel economy, and a lot of others bull****!

 

[leonbray]

I'd look at the aero as well on the cougar. Basic things like a front air dam and splitter back to behind the radiator, deflectors for front and rear tyre patch and rear roof and trunk spoiler to cut down lift created by that shape (the roof drop off behind the rear window). Have a look at some of the touring cars from the 70's and 80's for ideas. Plexiglas across the headlights fitted flush with the trim will also cut turbulance around the front of the hood

 

[fast Ed]

I'm sure that it's possible somehow to bolt one of those trannies behing a 460, as they are evolutions of the E40D trans that was used behind the 460s in trucks in the 80s and 90s. The biggest hurdle might well be the physical bulk of those units, they are huge compared to an old C6 3-speed. I'm guessing that your floor tunnel would have to be pretty heavily modified, even on a 71-73 car, to make room for the 6-speed auto.

IMO the Gear Vendors overdrive unit on the back of a C6 would be the easier and less expensive solution, if you are wanting to keep it as an auto. trans.


cheers
Ed N.

 

[Karl Storrer]

I am considerating a modified and reforced AOD they sell on Summit, or Mustangs Unlimited. The only thing I need to check is if it will bear the enormous torque of a Crate 460. I was thinking in 6R140 trucks transmission because it was designed to support the high torque from twin turbodiesels V8 6.7 ! But if the AOD works with Big Block, that's ok, because it has so much torque, I won't need so much gears. And I could use the stock 3.25:1 rear ratio.

 

[Karl Storrer]

Hi Leon, for sure I will try to do aero modifications for sure, but I don't want to change the car original look, except by the wheels size! I'll use 18" Magnum 500. It's a nice coincidence you live in Brisbane, QLD!! My sister lives few miles north of you in Caloundra - Sunshine Coast!

 

[fast Ed]

I am considerating a modified and reforced AOD they sell on Summit, or Mustangs Unlimited. The only thing I need to check is if it will bear the enormous torque of a Crate 460. I was thinking in 6R140 trucks transmission because it was designed to support the high torque from twin turbodiesels V8 6.7 ! But if the AOD works with Big Block, that's ok, because it has so much torque, I won't need so much gears. And I could use the stock 3.25:1 rear ratio.

Are they selling an AOD with the 460 bellhousing pattern? Because that would have to be a custom entity, Ford only used the C6 and E40D trannies behind the 460, which has a different bellhousing pattern than the 302 / 351W. You might want to consider contacting this guy, he only does AOD and 4R70W stuff, and offers custom bellhousings:

http://www.lentechautomatics.com/aodhome.html


cheers
Ed N.

 

[cougarshaman]

I think you should go with a manual trans. The gearboxes behind the PowerStroke diesels and later 460 engines are really stout and have an overdrive built in.
Overall cost would likely be less, but you'd have to do more fabrication work. However, you'll be grafting in a custom automatic if you don't, so it may be just as easy/difficult.
You'd just have to start in 2nd gear as 1st is a stump puller.

 

[Karl Storrer]

Hi Ed, I saw the AOD for 429/460 in the Summit and Cougar/Mustangs Unlimited Catalog, it's not cheap (3k Dollars), but it seems it a plug & play (I hope it's not a PLUG & PRAY) transmission!
Who makes it is a firm called Performance Automatic Transmission, and the transmission's part # is PASS53133. They make AOD for FE blocks too !

I will check too the possibility of installing an overdrive on C6 Transmission, as you said in another post!

But for sure I will contact lentech! I wish I could be on USA right now, but I'm going as soon as possible!

Thank you !

 

[Karl Storrer]

Funny, watching a video in Don Rush's West Coast Classic Cougar website, I noticed there's a guy called Stacey David making a Cougar project similar to mine on a TV Show! Except by the year (his is a '67) and the tranny (he's using manual T-56), they are very similar! I downloaded all his shows regarding the Cougar V8 Interceptor (by coincidence the same nickname I was thinking for mine!! it's quite obvious for a Ford) and it's very nice.
But I won't have so much trouble to put a big block on mine, because the 73 was factory designed to have big blocks altough there were only few 1971 models (less than 500) were sold with 429 engine. He's spending a lot of money there, a stroker Boss 9 engine like that won't cost less than 20 grand! He changed all front and the rear suspension too. Mine will be only reinforced, with brand new control arms, harder coils and shocks and heavy duty bushings. But the brake system I got is exactly the same. He told his car will reach 200 MPH! I can't wait to see that car ready!