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17 Posts
Will a 429 big block fit in a 70 cougar and what will I need to do to get it in.
429 HO big block
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
talk to firsteliminator, he has a 460 in his 70, (check this link,
http://www.mercurycougar.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3203#post3203
hopefully he ca help you.
Rick
http://www.mercurycougar.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3203#post3203
hopefully he ca help you.
Rick
Joined
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89 Posts
Yes, a 429/460 will fit in a 70 Cougar. With or without cutting shock towers. If you are talking about a BOSS 429---now that is a different story.
I have cut the shock towers on my car to make life easier with changing plugs and installing header bolts.
I have moved my radiator forward to allow enough room to put my electric fan onthe inside as a puller. A pusher fan is only 80% as efficiant as a puller.
You can use the balancer and water pump from a 69 Thunderbird to allow more room then using a the standard truck or lincoln componants. THe T-Bird's water pump is shorter and the belts ride right on the balncer.
I have used the Crite's Restoration swap mount and header kit to install the 460 into my car. One of the problems I have found with using their kit is that the headers are very big---about too big for a mild motor. I also couldn't make a complete left turn sinc ethe pitman arm did hit one of the header tubes. I then went to the FPA shorty headers which also had a smaller diameter at 1 3/4" primary tubebs versus the Crite's 2" tubes. I drive my car a lot and I live in Florida so it heat becomes a problem. With the big headers there was a lot more underhood heat. The smaller headers have less surface area and thus radiate less heat.
When selecting a header, it is important to take into consideration a tube size that would best compliment the engine's combination and desired use. Say if you have an engine that is going to put out a lot of power you would opt for a biiger tube diameter. And like wise with a mild motor. But, if you had a higher HP motor and 99% of the time drove the car like a normal car, it'd be best to select the smaller header.
I drive my car on a daily basis putting well over 10,000 miles a year, so I had decided to go with the smaller header which had not caused turning restrictions, didn't radiate as much heat, was quieter and servicability was easier. I would have just gone with exhaust manifolds, but the next engine's combination would have required something better then the log type manifolds. If I had a full effort type of motor, I would have stayed with the long tubes, but then the drivability of the motor would have been very poor making it only a racecar.
There are many options and directions to take when making major changes to a vehicle and you will have the best performance from a combination if you choose componants that compliment each other.
Hopefully I can offer some advice to help you get the desired performance, just let me know if you have any specific questions.
thanks,
Mark Piechowski
70 XR-7 460 AOD
69 SS 351c 2v AOD
70 XR-7 convertible 351c 4v FMX
69 Sunroof Eliminator 351w 4v FMX
I have cut the shock towers on my car to make life easier with changing plugs and installing header bolts.
I have moved my radiator forward to allow enough room to put my electric fan onthe inside as a puller. A pusher fan is only 80% as efficiant as a puller.
You can use the balancer and water pump from a 69 Thunderbird to allow more room then using a the standard truck or lincoln componants. THe T-Bird's water pump is shorter and the belts ride right on the balncer.
I have used the Crite's Restoration swap mount and header kit to install the 460 into my car. One of the problems I have found with using their kit is that the headers are very big---about too big for a mild motor. I also couldn't make a complete left turn sinc ethe pitman arm did hit one of the header tubes. I then went to the FPA shorty headers which also had a smaller diameter at 1 3/4" primary tubebs versus the Crite's 2" tubes. I drive my car a lot and I live in Florida so it heat becomes a problem. With the big headers there was a lot more underhood heat. The smaller headers have less surface area and thus radiate less heat.
When selecting a header, it is important to take into consideration a tube size that would best compliment the engine's combination and desired use. Say if you have an engine that is going to put out a lot of power you would opt for a biiger tube diameter. And like wise with a mild motor. But, if you had a higher HP motor and 99% of the time drove the car like a normal car, it'd be best to select the smaller header.
I drive my car on a daily basis putting well over 10,000 miles a year, so I had decided to go with the smaller header which had not caused turning restrictions, didn't radiate as much heat, was quieter and servicability was easier. I would have just gone with exhaust manifolds, but the next engine's combination would have required something better then the log type manifolds. If I had a full effort type of motor, I would have stayed with the long tubes, but then the drivability of the motor would have been very poor making it only a racecar.
There are many options and directions to take when making major changes to a vehicle and you will have the best performance from a combination if you choose componants that compliment each other.
Hopefully I can offer some advice to help you get the desired performance, just let me know if you have any specific questions.
thanks,
Mark Piechowski
70 XR-7 460 AOD
69 SS 351c 2v AOD
70 XR-7 convertible 351c 4v FMX
69 Sunroof Eliminator 351w 4v FMX
Joined
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89 Posts
Another thing you'll have to do is cut a hole in your hood, the Crites swap kit raises the motor up somewhat and there isn't enough clearance for a normal intake, carb and air cleaner.
There is a place called MPG Head Service in Colorado that makes a mount and header kit that claims it keeps the motor lower in the car. You can look them up at www.camresearchcorp.com. MPG's kit isn't for use with powersteering I believe. The Crites kit is for P/S though.
Mark Piechowski
There is a place called MPG Head Service in Colorado that makes a mount and header kit that claims it keeps the motor lower in the car. You can look them up at www.camresearchcorp.com. MPG's kit isn't for use with powersteering I believe. The Crites kit is for P/S though.
Mark Piechowski
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17 Posts
It is a 429 HO big block out of a 60 some thing t bird the two back doors were sucide doors. I going to keep pertty stock motor just need some help and hints
Joined
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89 Posts
Then the best thing to do would probly just leave the exhaust manifolds.
If you need to rebuild your C-6 it may be worthwhile at looking into a wide ratio gearset, then you can run a smaller gear in the rear, have good acceloration and still be able to cruise on the highway without having the motor revving too high. The stock planetary gears are 2.40:1 for 1st, 1.40 for 2nd and 1:1 for 3rd. The wide ratio set is 2.84:1, for first, and (I don't remember the 2nd gear ratio is I think--1.54:1) and 3rd is 1:1. Basicly, if you have a 3.00 gear in the rear, with the wide ratio planetary set it would be like having a 3.50 gear with stock transmission ratios. yet 3rd gear is always 1:1 ratio and you will cruise with the 3.00. It does make for more RPM drop when the gears shift, but if the motor is mild, then it should have a power band plenty wide enough to cover the extra rpm drop. Just a thought if you are looking for extras.
Mark Piechowski
If you need to rebuild your C-6 it may be worthwhile at looking into a wide ratio gearset, then you can run a smaller gear in the rear, have good acceloration and still be able to cruise on the highway without having the motor revving too high. The stock planetary gears are 2.40:1 for 1st, 1.40 for 2nd and 1:1 for 3rd. The wide ratio set is 2.84:1, for first, and (I don't remember the 2nd gear ratio is I think--1.54:1) and 3rd is 1:1. Basicly, if you have a 3.00 gear in the rear, with the wide ratio planetary set it would be like having a 3.50 gear with stock transmission ratios. yet 3rd gear is always 1:1 ratio and you will cruise with the 3.00. It does make for more RPM drop when the gears shift, but if the motor is mild, then it should have a power band plenty wide enough to cover the extra rpm drop. Just a thought if you are looking for extras.
Mark Piechowski
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1,832 Posts
I would like to see that also ! mm
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2,966 Posts
I know this isn't a Mustang Forum but I think this relates.. I have an 88 Mustang GT with a 460 BB in it with a C-6 (Pictures are in the photo area). I am thinking about going back to a small block. I have a bellhousing and flywheel combo for a 429-460 to a C4 I may be interested in getting rid of. The reason I am thinking of going back to small block is heat. I car runs hot sitting still weather I revv the engine or let it idle but I runs cool even at low town cruising (once it gets a little air moving in the engine area). I have tried everything, (flow kooler water pump, BIG aluminum rad with baffel modifications that makes the water flow back and forth 2 times through the rad, 3 different t.stats, have a 5in cowl hood open rear, stalker nose with all possible areas cut out for air flow, had 2 elect fans but went to a flex fan with a custom aluminum fan shroud) if I remove the hood and revv it setting still it will stay cool. (cont)
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2,966 Posts
Cont from above...
It never overheats and it takes a while to get the temp up over 210 but I am afraid to drive it much away from home cause I dont want to get stuck in traffic or something. So there are many things you should consider when you make a major change like that. I've had alot of cool swapped cars (I also have a pic of a tubbed Ranger I had with a 302 5spd in the pic area) but NOTHING is more aggrevating than heat troubles....
Just my 2 cents!
Scott
It never overheats and it takes a while to get the temp up over 210 but I am afraid to drive it much away from home cause I dont want to get stuck in traffic or something. So there are many things you should consider when you make a major change like that. I've had alot of cool swapped cars (I also have a pic of a tubbed Ranger I had with a 302 5spd in the pic area) but NOTHING is more aggrevating than heat troubles....
Just my 2 cents!
Scott
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89 Posts
I will get out the digital camera and take some pics. I don't quite rememebr how I cut that square cross member to make room for the angle irn. The new pieces are 2---2" wide pieces of angle iron welded together to form a channel. then that was welded onto the front section of the frame. The radiator sits in the channel. I had also trimmed up the radiator support to move the radiator forward.
I am still surprised myself, but my 460 stays at a steady 200 with one 14" unshrouded electric fan. I live in Florida, so it is well tested with hot conditions.
I will have the give more details after I look at the set up again when I post the pictures---it has beena long time---maybe 4 years now since I did that mod.
Bob, have you looked into or are running the 69 T-Bird water pump and balancer? That may give you enough clearance.
Mark Piechowski
70 XR-7 460 AOD
69 SS 351c 2v AOD
70 XR-7 conv 351c 4v FMX
69 Sunroof Eliminator 351w 4v FMX
I am still surprised myself, but my 460 stays at a steady 200 with one 14" unshrouded electric fan. I live in Florida, so it is well tested with hot conditions.
I will have the give more details after I look at the set up again when I post the pictures---it has beena long time---maybe 4 years now since I did that mod.
Bob, have you looked into or are running the 69 T-Bird water pump and balancer? That may give you enough clearance.
Mark Piechowski
70 XR-7 460 AOD
69 SS 351c 2v AOD
70 XR-7 conv 351c 4v FMX
69 Sunroof Eliminator 351w 4v FMX
Joined
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3,141 Posts
I have a balancer, lower pulley set, WP & pulley from a 68 Tbird. They don't line up with my PS or Alt so I would be back to hunting for brackets. I am saving all that as a last resort. I was considering cutting out the radiator support where the stock radiator sits so that it was flush, this should give me another 1"-1.5" I think.
My first choice is to run a 16" pusher, second choice is 2 12" fans as pullers, if they will fit around the WP snout. It would be a lot easier with a pusher fan, but I am hearing that they are not as efficient. Derale claims that their new Tornado is as efficient either way. I'm so Confused!!!
Is your fan a puller or a pusher?
My first choice is to run a 16" pusher, second choice is 2 12" fans as pullers, if they will fit around the WP snout. It would be a lot easier with a pusher fan, but I am hearing that they are not as efficient. Derale claims that their new Tornado is as efficient either way. I'm so Confused!!!
Is your fan a puller or a pusher?
Joined
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89 Posts
Hey Bob,
FLex-A-Lite makes a dual fan unit that has a shroud with a rubber seal. It comes as either 2 10" fans or 2 12" fans. They claim to be "slimline motors" to fit in tight spaces, when ever I have some extra money, I will up grade to this set up.
Bob, are you running the stock style radiator? I am running the Northern Brand, Summit Racing calls it their house brand, and for a universal fit it was 175 bucks. All I had to do was have the lower spout cut off and welded pointing down instead of up. When it points up, it aims right at the power steering pump pulley. It took me a while, but I did find some hoses the fit just perfectly. I don't know the applications, but I do have the part numbers if you want them. What are you running for hoses?
Hey Bob, we'll have to park next to each other at the Nationals this year in NJ, then we can see how the two differ---or end up being the same by that time---ha ha ha. I plan to go back with a C-6 after I install a "good" motor. I don't want to willingly waste a good AOD when it can go in my convert. On the other hand, I am curious to see if it will take it a solid cammed 460 with ported heads.
Mark Piechowski
70 XR-7 460 AOD
69 SS 351c 2v AOD
70 XR-7 351c 4v FMX
69 Sunroof Eliminator 351w 4v FMX
FLex-A-Lite makes a dual fan unit that has a shroud with a rubber seal. It comes as either 2 10" fans or 2 12" fans. They claim to be "slimline motors" to fit in tight spaces, when ever I have some extra money, I will up grade to this set up.
Bob, are you running the stock style radiator? I am running the Northern Brand, Summit Racing calls it their house brand, and for a universal fit it was 175 bucks. All I had to do was have the lower spout cut off and welded pointing down instead of up. When it points up, it aims right at the power steering pump pulley. It took me a while, but I did find some hoses the fit just perfectly. I don't know the applications, but I do have the part numbers if you want them. What are you running for hoses?
Hey Bob, we'll have to park next to each other at the Nationals this year in NJ, then we can see how the two differ---or end up being the same by that time---ha ha ha. I plan to go back with a C-6 after I install a "good" motor. I don't want to willingly waste a good AOD when it can go in my convert. On the other hand, I am curious to see if it will take it a solid cammed 460 with ported heads.
Mark Piechowski
70 XR-7 460 AOD
69 SS 351c 2v AOD
70 XR-7 351c 4v FMX
69 Sunroof Eliminator 351w 4v FMX
Joined
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3,141 Posts
Yep, I have a stock BB radiator. Got it from 1-888-RADIATOR. Haven't got hoses on it permanent yet. What are you using? Looks like the inlet/outlet will work, the bottom hose may take some persuading such as artistic bending/cutting, but not too much.
Do you have a website that gives the specs on that Flex-a-lite set up?
I looked at the rad support some more last night, don't think I'd gain as much as I thought. I believe I am going to hold off modifying it until I exhaust other options.
I sure am planning to get to NJ. Put the headliner in last weekend. Splash shield is almost finished. Then I can do the carpet and the rest of the interior will be gravy. (aren't I the optimist!) Then the fun part!
I'm still planning on getting it to the MU show in CT for a shakedown, then on to NJ for the Nats. We'll definitely have to try to get parked side by side.
Do you have a website that gives the specs on that Flex-a-lite set up?
I looked at the rad support some more last night, don't think I'd gain as much as I thought. I believe I am going to hold off modifying it until I exhaust other options.
I sure am planning to get to NJ. Put the headliner in last weekend. Splash shield is almost finished. Then I can do the carpet and the rest of the interior will be gravy. (aren't I the optimist!) Then the fun part!
I'm still planning on getting it to the MU show in CT for a shakedown, then on to NJ for the Nats. We'll definitely have to try to get parked side by side.
Joined
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89 Posts
The water pump is the only part I don't have, but you can see the difference between the regular balancer and the T-bird balancer. I know on mine, which is a 70's truck balancer, the difference may end up being about 2 inches.
Mark Piechowski
70 XR-7 460 AOD
69 SS 351c 2v AOD
70 XR-7 conv 351c 4v FMX
69 Sunroof Eliminator 351c 4v FMX
Mark Piechowski
70 XR-7 460 AOD
69 SS 351c 2v AOD
70 XR-7 conv 351c 4v FMX
69 Sunroof Eliminator 351c 4v FMX
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