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Discussion Starter #1
Ok here goes. Alot of people tell me that a Cleveland is better but can never tell me why. I have a cleveland but was just what makes it better if anything or is just a matter of opinion.
Thanks
Mad Cat
 

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I think its a matter of opinion.
Clevelands were phased out due to emissions here.
They don't have the structural integrity of a windsor
The oiling system is inferior to a windsor's
Parts availability is lacking
Hot Rod parts are not near as numerous.
Their heads are designed poorly. Steam pockets are frequent.
Valvetrain geometry isn't as good
block flex at or around 5500 rpm
but...
breathing potential is better
can be machined for 4 bolts if original 2 bolt
bearing size keeps speed down relative to rpm. saving bearings.
No water passages in intake to foul things up.
Finding a machine shop with torque plates is a fun activity!
Building a stroker of over 400 cubes can be a fun way to make use of 4v ports!
 

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There are schools of thought for both choices.

Back in the days before aftermarket aluminum heads, yes, the Cleveland had superior ports and will flow more than Windsors. That has all changed in the last ten years or so. Now you can get Windsor heads that will outflow a 4V Cleveland! I don't know of anyone making aftermarket aluminum heads for Clevelands. Face it, the last short-deck 'true' Cleveand was made almost thirty years ago (351M/400s carried on un1979). 351Ws were in use up until 1997 in trucks.

I've also heard that the Windsor has a superior oiling system for some reason. Like the main galley feeds the crank first, then the lifter gallery, whereas the Cleveland tries to feed both at once or some such. There used to be oil passage restrictor kits that you'd put in the lifter oil passage in a Cleveland to improve oil flow to the crank. Nowadays, Windsor parts are a heck of a lot easier (and therefore cheaper) to find than Cleveland parts.
 

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There are several companies that make aluminum heads for the Clevelands.

Blue Thunder makes a performance 4v in aluminum---this is a monster of a head--not for use on smaller then 351 cubes.

Ford's SVO used to carry the C-302-B heads as one of several variations which were and aluminum version of the 4v head. They are no longer made, but can be found.

There is another head I cannot remember the name of the company that makes it, but they reffer to it as a "3v" ---because it is in between the sizes of the 2 and 4v's.

There is also a company called AusHeads that makes an aluminum 2v head that out of the box is capable of 600 hp.

Edelbrock says they WILL come out with an aluminum head for the Cleveland, I am not sure when or what style--but I vbet the price will be good.

Go with what you got, there are performance componants for either.
 

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Coolness/nostagia asside, if I did not already go down the road of the Cleveland, I would go with a windsor stroker motor, top it off with a set of Twisted Wedge R heads, matched with a good intake, and you could probably get 500 - 600 hp without too many problems. As the others have said, there are a ton of parts for the windsor and they are a lot cheaper. Not too many parts easily had or affordable for the cleveland.

Or, if you want the look of the cleveland, you could build a 351 Clevor, still stroke it out, and it would look cool.
 

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Or as in my case: 2 Clevelands, 1 Windsor and 1 '70 Cougar.

I need 3 engines for it since the wind changes around here and I change engines like the wind.

The W is out getting the *massive* upgrade while the C is keeping the cat alive. The *other* C is waiting for its internals to go back in.

Ahhh...so many engines...so few cars...
 

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i like to see edelbrock go with a set of heads for the 351c. They make heads for all different applications.I guess enough people *****ed enough to them to make a set. Be nice to also see em make a power package as well. But time will tell when they come out w/ the heads.
thanks
pat
 

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The 351W used to be the Rodney Dangerfield of Ford motors, nothing was built for it for a long while. The 351C was *the* power motor for the 70s until the gas wars and emissions regs killed all power from factory motors. Until the Mid-80s when power started coming back with the 5.0 Mustang, nothing much was built for power in the Windsor family. That is no longer true. The aftermarket heads like TFS and AFR are way superior to the best port job on a stock 69-70 head. Clevelands are great motors and there has been a fix for that oiling problem for years but not many people make high performance parts for it now so hopping up a 351C now costs noticeably more than a 351W. You can get the same power from a 351W for 1/2 to 2/3 of the cost to build a 351C of the same power. I wouldn't toss a 351C if I had one (I do), but if building from scratch I will go with the 351W for power and the 351C for originality only (not that any of my 69 came with a 351C but 70s and up did.)
 
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