Mercury Cougar Owners banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So, I'm new to the Mercury/Ford Scene and have a question regarding the 351.

I'm currently looking at a 69 Cougar with a 351W. The motor cost was approximately $6,000. It was built by I believe JE Engines, or something along those lines. Regardless, it is putting out 610HP on a dyno. The guy mentioned something along the lines of it not running on pump gas. Being naturally aspirated, even with high compression, it should still be able to run on pump gas, am I wrong?

I don't see where it would NEED to be ran on race gas.

Is there anything I'm missing on required octane levels? Seeing 610HP should still hypothetically streetable. I'm going to find more information on the specs, but figured I'd get some initial opinions until I speak with the guy tomorrow.

Granted, I've seen 600+ HP Camaro's run standard 93-Octane. I'm unsure if I'm overlooking any major factors.

Than again, old school guys can tend to sometimes over complicate things when not necessary.

I'm planning on using her as an occasional racer and show car. Yet, I would think if driven carefully could be a frequent driver on the nicer days.

The guy claims at 420HP it couldn't hook up and would go sideways in third. Do I doubt that? No, but I feel if driven carefully and not like an ******* it could be a good occasional driver.

Let me know what you guys think!

-Derek
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,126 Posts
The fact he told you it doesn't run on pump gas is a real CLUE..... Sure there are engines producing over 600 hp on pump gas, example, Vette ZR-1 and others, but they are injected high tech pieces.

You need to learn more, I would guess it is a high compression engine, NOT injected, or computer controlled. I doubt it would be a engine you would want to drive on the street, also one that would probably require lots of attention to maintain proper performance. IMO.

I wish you well,

Dale in Indy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
332 Posts
If all the planets align it is possible, but I am a see it to believe it type feller. Thats a lot of power per cube in a na motor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Very true. Guess I'm going to need the detailed specs on it. He's just getting divorced and could be bluffing to try and sell it quicker. Who knows.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,633 Posts
Almost by definition this is not going to be a street-able car. To get that kind of HP this thing has to be built to run at full throttle, and at very high RPM's. The compression ratio will tell the gasoline octane story. I suspect that to get that knid of HP it is running 13 to 1 or so.

Modern cars that have high HP per CI use direct injection to cool the combustion chamber as well as a lot of computer control of timing with knock detection.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,950 Posts
He's saying on the dyno and not at the flywheel? Yeah, doesn't sound to realistic on the surface. Heck mine'll ping on 90 octane if I get frisky and it's 10:1 with MSD lighting the fire.....adding a can of booster makes her much happier. Maybe you guys have some really good pump gas where your from! ;>)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
156 Posts
I had a 10.5 to 1 small block Ford a few years ago and it would knock on 93 Amoco. I had to run it 2 degrees retarded or use fuel additive. The newer injected engines use a PCM to control pre-ignition. I would have to see it to believe it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Hm all good factors to keep in mind.

I'll be seeing the guy shortly, so I'll find out all I can.

And for the record, if it means much, there's a gas station right down the road with E-85 for $3.39/gallon. But, that's the only place for about 80 miles. :evil: So no long road trips with her if I end up grabbing her.

Perfect body... Built trans... 4.56 9-Inch.. plus the motor. For $6,000 I don't think I could pass it up. I've seen it in the guys garage for YEARS. Now, he's getting divorced and selling it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,518 Posts
Keep in mind, E-85 requires a whole fuel system upgrade, but it does average around 107 octane. Another draw back is you will get considerably worse fuel milage, and im sure its not good as it is.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,577 Posts
I'm no expert on E-85, but using it in a big time performance engine seems sketchy at best to me. Am I way off here?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,633 Posts
Another name for E85 is Alcohol. You an get amazing power out of it, but it takes a lot of volume as it doesn't have as much caloric energy as gasoline. It has some oxygen in it so it is partially oxygenated and requires less air to burn a given amount of fuel. My nephew has to start his alcohol dragster on gasoline and then switch over to alcohol once it warms up. It cools the intake so much he doesn't need to run a radiator. (keep in mind this is a pure race car burning a couple of gallons of alcohol in a single pass.)
 

·
Contributing Sr Motorhead
Joined
·
5,470 Posts
My 393w is sitting at around 440hp (crank) and 380hp (at the ground) on mid-grade 89 octane pump gas, and still passes Ohio's emissions testing for the '89 Crown Vic it is in... That means it runs high 12-second/low 13 second 1/4-mile ETs in a 4000-pound car. AND it still gets close to 15mpg! OK, so that 15mpg is with an AOD and 3.55 rear gears, but still... it is perfectly streetable combo!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,142 Posts
It is possible to get there with today's cylinder heads and good cam choices + good carb. Mine made 622 on "pump" gas. I run it conservatively on 93 with the timing backed off at the car is still capable of 11.20's in street trim.

If it is a high compression engine it's going to need high octane gas or it's going to shake the main caps and you're going to be replacing the engine.

Have him give you all the details. Anything sketchy means he doesn't know and I would not believe a word at that point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,950 Posts
Keep in mind you never get your money back out of a motor --- ESPECIALLY if it's been modified. Nobody want's to deal with unknowns. I don't care if the dude spent $5K I wouldn't give him >$1K. You don't know how it was driven, built,...etc. I don't care if you got receipts - coulda been from ther guy across the street for all you know.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top