[Black67]

Has anyone here had any experience with running a braided line from the rear of the cleveland block where the sending unit goes to the front of the block to the plug to the left of the filter. The po had done the external oil line mod and had the sending unit down by the filter. I never liked the setup due to the braided line always kit the gas pedal rod. I bought a new sending unit and installed it in the stock location and need to plug the hole to the left of the filter.
Does anyone have experience with the mod I want to undo? Should I put the line back in place with the sending unit by the filter?

 

[cougarshaman]

Without knowing what other internal mods have been done in conjunction, I'd say put the line back and run it so it won't interfere with the throttle.
It's a highly debated mod over on the cleveland forum, but I really like it for stock block Clevelands that rpm.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/thread/1039707623/1040929361/That+line+thing

 

[1970fastcat]

The oil line is not really needed. There is long been debates about it, but, it is a minor fix, at best, for highly modded engines. If the engine is running a hydralic lifter cam, then there is no need in it. If it is a solid lifter cam, then it is a cheap, and ineffective way, to supply more oil to the crank.

Give us the details on your engine and we can tell you what would be the best solution.

 

[cougarshaman]

The oil line is not really needed. There is long been debates about it, but, it is a minor fix, at best, for highly modded engines. If the engine is running a hydralic lifter cam, then there is no need in it. If it is a solid lifter cam, then it is a cheap, and ineffective way, to supply more oil to the crank.

Give us the details on your engine and we can tell you what would be the best solution.

See?

(10 characters)

 

[1970fastcat]

Haha, right you are Andy. We must have been typing at the same time.

The whole line thing started with Hank the Crank, and the cranks that he was building or modding. From my understanding, he came up with the oil mod because he didn't do his engineering on the cranks properly and was having failures. Something to do with the oil passages not drilled properly, or at the right angle, or something to that effect. The oil line is only part of the full mod anyway. When doing the whole mod, it would be effective, but only needed for a really high RPM engine. Just the line itself may help the #5 main and/or drivers side lifter galley, but minimally, if at all.

If this is a Hydraulic lifter engine, running a standard volume oil pump, then leave it off. If running a high volume pump WITH a high volume oil pan then put it on. If a high volume pump and no high volume oil pan, then either pump a high volume pan on or a standard volume pump. The whole game changes if you are running a solid lifter, even more so if running roller lifter.

 

[Black67]

I didnt build the motor so I dont know the exact details but it looks to have stock valvetrain crank rods and pistons. I had the oil pan off but not the heads or intake so I couldnt tell you much about it. I just know that everything looks recently rebuild and supported the fact that the motor only had 2000 miles when I bought the car. It does have a healthy cam 4v heads stock iron intake. I run vr1 20 50 oil and usually have between 50-70 psi oil pressure at cruise (2000 rpm) and at idle its around 35psi hot.

 

[Black67]

I also have a stock pan not sure on the oil pump though and im pretty sure its a hydraulic cam. If it was a solid lift cam im sure i would have noticed and would be adjusting valves by now... Or atleast I would think.

 

[Black67]

I just went and looked at the pushrods (valve covers are off) they have the oil passage through them so I would assume hydraulic lifters.

 

[cougarshaman]

This is what I mean. Without a direct knowledge of what's been done, best just to hook it back up.

Some people have oiling issues as low as 5700, and the rear bearings tend to get the worst of the damage from low pressure/volume.

 

[Black67]

Doesnt the line help return oil to the front?

 

[1970fastcat]

No, it actually supplies oil from right out of the filter, and puts it at the rear of the crank. It can't hurt anything for it to be on there. I would try to put the sending unit at the rear if you can though, and keep an eye on the pressure throughout the RPM band.

 

[Black67]

It's going to be a while before I start the car back up. I will have to find different fittings to put the sending unit at the rear of the block. I still need to figure out what to do about my t5 trans, its currently torn apart. I put the motor back in yesterday because of the warm weather.

 

[1969XR7Vert]

Two comments. One, solid lifter or hydraulic, the pushrods always are hollow to send oil up to the valvetrain. Two, a stock oil sender unit should screw right into the block (maybe you have an aftermarket gauge sender which won't. 1/4" NPT is the thread I believe.

Okay, three comments. You are in good hands with the two (what I consider to be) Cleveland guru's who responded!

Regards,

Bob

 

[Black67]

I bought a stock sending unit and put it back in the rear of the block and then decided to research the oil line the po put on. I really dont want it back on there, but if it is needed i will put it back. Its such a cleaner setup without the line running over the engine and I havent found a way to avoid it binding with the throttle rod besides using various zip ties to the strut tower supports and holes up by the cowl.

 

[cougarshaman]

Yeah, the external line is just a way to get pressure to the rear without a significant loss.

With 50-70 psi at idle, I'm thinking you have a high pressure oil pump. I'd replace the stock oil pan and run a 6 or 8 quart pan.
The Moroso 6 quart pan is only 100 bucks and uses the stock pickup.http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/20557/10002/-1 Traditionally, the junkyard solution is to find a CJ pan and run an extra quart in it.

 

[Black67]

Well as of right now im not changing the pan, i just put the motor in sunday after replacing the pan gasket and dont wanna pull it anytime soon. My new motor mounts were a pita to get on the pads. Maybe if it leaks I will change it. BTW what is the difference between a stock pan and the CJ pan? I believe mine is a 6 quart but the inside doesnt have the cutout like the moroso one

 

[cougarshaman]

71 and up Boss/CJ engines had a scraper/baffle setup in the pan from the factory.

The stock pan holds enough oil to feed the stock volume/pressure pump. Upgrade the pump and you alter the total volume of oil per minute that goes through the engine.
You pump it faster, but gravity remains 9.8m/s^2.
So, you can have a space of time where the oil hasn't yet come back down and the oil is all pumped out of the pan. Somewhere around the 10 second mark or so.
With a greater volume of oil, you never have this problem.
Hence the higher volume pan. :smoke:

 

[cougar2]

Instead of running a braided line over the top, run a hard line over the top or under the exhaust manifold. This way you will just run an 1/4 inch pipe adaptor where the sender is and run the line down the back of the motor and under the manifold to the front of the motor. You will not see the line doing it this way.

 

[1970fastcat]

As Andy says, it would be a good idea to swap pans. It can be done with the engine in the car, just have to remove the crossmember. If it is a high volume, which it sounds like it is, you should have a high volume pan as well. The oil pump will likely have a part number cast into it. It will likely be either M84A or M84AHV, the later being the high volume version, obviously.

The factory pan can hold 6 quarts, just like the CJ pan did. They are the same stampings, the difference being the scraper and baffles in the CJ. The problem is, 6 quarts may or may not be enough for a high volume pump. If you keep the revs under about 5500, you should be ok. Mine sucked dry once or twice at about 6 or 6500 with 7 quarts in it.

Another thing to consider, if it isn't already done, is the oil pump shaft. The factory one can "Barber pole" on a high volume pump. The factory one is a 5/16 hex shaft all the way up. The good replacements are round and beefier with the hex at just the ends.

 

[Black67]

I appreciate all the help but I will not be pulling the motor back out or apart. I very rarely will run the thing to 6500, if at all. I have before and never lost oil pressure that I recall. I should have looked into this more before I put it back in but I never thought this motor would have all these little issues. I guess i'll just wait and see what the oil pressure is come spring when the trans is back in. This is what the inside of my pan looks like: http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-11089400041767_2190_186516649