1969XR7Vert drag race
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Hi Carlton,
Best time out of 11! runs was [email protected] MPH, I was initially surprised and a little disappointed but subsequently concluded it was probably "about right" when compared to the [email protected] I had run back in the day with my '70 HT "Cleveland Rocks". Reasons being: 1. the 'vert is HEAVY! I was shocked when I stopped at the scale after a run and found the car with me in it was ~4160 lbs! I knew 'vert's were heavier but I thought HT's were in the low 3K range? Maybe it's more like 3600 for an HT? Or? (someone please chime in). 2. I used to run open headers at the track and (on that engine/exhaust) it was good for about .4 or .5 and a few MPH. That was 2" exhaust and Isabel has 2 1/4" and probably better flowing mufflers. 3. Radial tires now and used to run nearly bald L60-15's.
Still, I thought the much higher compression (true 10:1 vs probably a little less than 9:1 with 2V OC heads), the most cam I could realistically run (Comp 262H) with my combination vs. a Ford CJ cam, Air Gap vs. Performer, 650 DP vs. 600 DP, MSD/Duraspark trigger vs. single points might have made Isabel faster even with exhaust on (cannot easily open headers because of the seat pans and brace on a 'vert) than the mild combo I had back in the day (that ran so well!).
Although one prefers to remember the best times regardless of configuration, I think Cleveland Rocks used to run comparable mid-14's times with the exhaust on.
So what I am joking with friends is that the outing just moved the next drivetrain iteration (408 stroker, aluminum heads, full roller, TKO500 or 600, 4.10? gears, etc.) up on the priorities list big time!
Unfortunately I was unable to get anyone to man my video camera, but I do have a bunch of pictures my buddies wife took (in continuous shot mode) of some of our runs. I will post one or more of those up as soon as I have time to UL them.
Thanks for asking Carlton, I thought no one noticed/cared about the post I made regarding going!
Another way to look at this all is that I wailed the tar out of Isabel for 11 runs and didn't break anything which is a good night of racing regardless, right? It was really amazing we got to make so many runs, we actually quit before the end of racing because we were worn out and decided to stop beating on our cars! I have never made anywhere close to that many runs when I have gone in the past. Slow night I guess!
Regards,
Bob
Best time out of 11! runs was [email protected] MPH, I was initially surprised and a little disappointed but subsequently concluded it was probably "about right" when compared to the [email protected] I had run back in the day with my '70 HT "Cleveland Rocks". Reasons being: 1. the 'vert is HEAVY! I was shocked when I stopped at the scale after a run and found the car with me in it was ~4160 lbs! I knew 'vert's were heavier but I thought HT's were in the low 3K range? Maybe it's more like 3600 for an HT? Or? (someone please chime in). 2. I used to run open headers at the track and (on that engine/exhaust) it was good for about .4 or .5 and a few MPH. That was 2" exhaust and Isabel has 2 1/4" and probably better flowing mufflers. 3. Radial tires now and used to run nearly bald L60-15's.
Still, I thought the much higher compression (true 10:1 vs probably a little less than 9:1 with 2V OC heads), the most cam I could realistically run (Comp 262H) with my combination vs. a Ford CJ cam, Air Gap vs. Performer, 650 DP vs. 600 DP, MSD/Duraspark trigger vs. single points might have made Isabel faster even with exhaust on (cannot easily open headers because of the seat pans and brace on a 'vert) than the mild combo I had back in the day (that ran so well!).
Although one prefers to remember the best times regardless of configuration, I think Cleveland Rocks used to run comparable mid-14's times with the exhaust on.
So what I am joking with friends is that the outing just moved the next drivetrain iteration (408 stroker, aluminum heads, full roller, TKO500 or 600, 4.10? gears, etc.) up on the priorities list big time!
Unfortunately I was unable to get anyone to man my video camera, but I do have a bunch of pictures my buddies wife took (in continuous shot mode) of some of our runs. I will post one or more of those up as soon as I have time to UL them.
Thanks for asking Carlton, I thought no one noticed/cared about the post I made regarding going!
Another way to look at this all is that I wailed the tar out of Isabel for 11 runs and didn't break anything which is a good night of racing regardless, right? It was really amazing we got to make so many runs, we actually quit before the end of racing because we were worn out and decided to stop beating on our cars! I have never made anywhere close to that many runs when I have gone in the past. Slow night I guess!
Regards,
Bob
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P.S. You might be able to imagine my trepidation at the prospect of opening this thread. What with the few socalcraigster-esque posts I have made recently, who knows what I may have found here! :buck:
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Glad to hear you took the car to the track & it all worked out well for you.
I also can't resist gloating a bit here, in that my bone stock, concours-correct R code vert turned in a 14.1 @ 98 mph in its best of 4 runs. :evil:
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Your car came stock with drag radials, huh?
My buddy with the fox body turned in a similar time, 14.2 around the same MPH as I recall.
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The 14.1 @ 98 was on repro bias ply tires. That's why I said "bone stock". :wave: They actually hook up quite well.
The day you are alluding to (when I had drag radials on it), it's best time was a 14.2.
Don't worry though, all your mods must have had some effect: you turned .3 quicker than my buddy's basically stock 351C/4-speed '70 Mach. Disclaimer: I say "basically stock" because the Mach has radial tires & red plug wires.
PS - as a point of reference, my 'vert tipped the scales (with me in it) at 4,200 lbs.
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Yep Chris, I was SHOCKED to see the scale read 4160 with me in it. I figure if I put some good draggin' tires on I would pick up a couple 10th's and MPH, if I could figure how to uncork the headers ('vert seat reinforcements make this difficult/impossible), even more (my memory of 13.9/101 in "Cleveland Rocks" was with open headers). Guess I didn't build to drag but we like to be "fast" regardless, right?
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ANOTHER BLAST tonight at E-Town!!! 06/12/2012
8 runs, best time [email protected] What a BLAST running open exhaust! (see my ECI thread for details on that) So much more fun and easier to know when to shift, how long/far to wind 'er out, etc. Was shifting at around 6K and running through the traps at the end of 3rd gear (3.25 gears in the rear). Engine runs great even if it isn't a race car. Some slicks and I'll break into the 13's (guess what I'm buying next).
Here's a (lousy) video of my second best run beating my buddy in his fox body 'stang. Dig the announcer's commentary (what you can hear of it anyway!). Enjoy, I know I did!
<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid1194.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa367%2FECIBob%2FShows%2F2012%2FE-Town%2520Drags%2520061312%2FEtown061312.mp4">
8 runs, best time [email protected] What a BLAST running open exhaust! (see my ECI thread for details on that) So much more fun and easier to know when to shift, how long/far to wind 'er out, etc. Was shifting at around 6K and running through the traps at the end of 3rd gear (3.25 gears in the rear). Engine runs great even if it isn't a race car. Some slicks and I'll break into the 13's (guess what I'm buying next).
Here's a (lousy) video of my second best run beating my buddy in his fox body 'stang. Dig the announcer's commentary (what you can hear of it anyway!). Enjoy, I know I did!
<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid1194.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa367%2FECIBob%2FShows%2F2012%2FE-Town%2520Drags%2520061312%2FEtown061312.mp4">
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:>) 4160 lbs! Dang I'd a guessed 3700 or so.....that's a buncha metal to motivate. Thought a vert would shed a few pounds.....still very good times all things considered. Slicks and a different ratio would easily get you into the deep 13 sec's then. But it's nice to have some street gears for the cruises so I'd say you have the right balance.....and just look good doing it! Looks like a blast!!
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With that 262H cam, if you're winding it above 5500rpm, you're probably wasting time since that puts you on the backside of the power curve. With my 393W and the Comp Cams X4262H (Extreme Energy 4x4-series for more low-end torque) I found my best ETs were found by shifting a only 5000rpm. Taking it to 5500 slowed me down a couple of tenths, and taking it to 6000 slowed the car by a half second! Sure, it sounds like it is still pulling hard, but the rate of acceleration drops off after 5000rpm!
The car I'm running is a 4150-pound (with me also) '89 Crown Vic! With the wide-ratio AOD, 2500 converter and 3.55 rear gears I got down to 14.0s @ 103. Then I went with a retrofit hydraulic roller cam (XR-276RF-HR) with no other changes and cut a full second off the car, now down to 13.06 @ 106.55!!! Next up will be a converter change to one with 3200 stall and put the car on a bit of a diet (losing the extremely heavy dual-power split bench leather seats for a pair of lightweight manual buckets). This should get me well into the 12s! Oh, and I'm running sticky Mickey Thompson drag radials in 255/60-15 which are about 27" tall.
The car I'm running is a 4150-pound (with me also) '89 Crown Vic! With the wide-ratio AOD, 2500 converter and 3.55 rear gears I got down to 14.0s @ 103. Then I went with a retrofit hydraulic roller cam (XR-276RF-HR) with no other changes and cut a full second off the car, now down to 13.06 @ 106.55!!! Next up will be a converter change to one with 3200 stall and put the car on a bit of a diet (losing the extremely heavy dual-power split bench leather seats for a pair of lightweight manual buckets). This should get me well into the 12s! Oh, and I'm running sticky Mickey Thompson drag radials in 255/60-15 which are about 27" tall.
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Thanks Milo. I think I agree that perhaps the top end of the RPM range I was using the acceleration might have been falling off a tad, I'll have to try shifting a little earlier next time.
Interesting on the full roller and I would mind taking that kind of time off my ET's - EXCEPT - As a 'vert NHRA says I can't run under 13.49 without a roll bar (and I ain't putting one in!) so probably can get there just with some drag tires and driving properly.
On the tires, I (now) have a problem. I put 4 wheel Cobra discs on Isabel over the winter. 15" rims are out as a result. Looks like real drag tires don't come in 17", but they do come in 16" (in lesser variety). I think I have read somewhere that with Cobra rears 16" rims can fit, I'll have to look into that. I don't see any point in buying drag radials (which probably are available in 17"). If I am going to buy tires specifically for the purpose of dragging, they shall be full on drag tires (mistake?). Afterall, I do have Cal-trac's and I think the rest of the drivetrain can take what my fairly mild 351C can dish out. In other words if I want to hook up better, I am going to go all the way.
So there it is. I only have about .7 ET to play with, so the quest is how to best/most cheaply get there. 13.49 is my/the NHRA's limit and that's fine with me, if I want more I should build something for the purpose!
The announcer at E-town seemed to enjoy the fact that I was taking out my show car and beating the piss out of it instead of letting it sit in a garage when not at shows or cruise nights, he also (like most) likes Isabel's story.
Thanks again,
Bob
Edit: Full Drag Tire? Yes, might be a mistake. MT Street ET Drag Radials come in 17" and Cragar makes some 17 x 9 steel "wagon wheels" that probably will work.
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Don't kid yourself: drag radials are very good these days.
IMHO, it seems like you are going to a lot of trouble though to pick up a few measly tenths. Open exhaust, drag tires, etc. Be advised: anything you run over with those drag tires will be slung against your undercarriage/wheel wells.
IMHO, it seems like you are going to a lot of trouble though to pick up a few measly tenths. Open exhaust, drag tires, etc. Be advised: anything you run over with those drag tires will be slung against your undercarriage/wheel wells.
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Is this somehow unexpected? I think not.
Aren't you the guy who bought drag radials and custom rims, ran on them once and subsequently sold them?
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Drag radials DO hook, as my buddy Terry found to his chagrin... He noticed at the track that his slicks had cords showing, so he borrowed a set of drag radials from one of the guys who lives close to the track. He was afraid that the drag radials wouldn't hook, and instead of launching at 2500 like he normally does, he dropped it down to 2000 on the starting line. This was the result:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuclKqCFO28&feature=plcp
I'd say they hooked up just fine!!!
Same pass from inside the car:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaoVCRumSwk&feature=plcp
The breaking up you hear at the 1-2 shift and going through the finish line was the motor hitting the rev limit chip since these tires are just a tad shorter than his normal slicks... He raised it by 200 for the next round...
The next round he forgot to launch at the lower RPM and this happened:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6PK2JyyCJo&feature=plcp
He smashed three header tubes flat so in essence the car was running on five cylinders. Oops!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuclKqCFO28&feature=plcp
I'd say they hooked up just fine!!!
Same pass from inside the car:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaoVCRumSwk&feature=plcp
The breaking up you hear at the 1-2 shift and going through the finish line was the motor hitting the rev limit chip since these tires are just a tad shorter than his normal slicks... He raised it by 200 for the next round...
The next round he forgot to launch at the lower RPM and this happened:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6PK2JyyCJo&feature=plcp
He smashed three header tubes flat so in essence the car was running on five cylinders. Oops!
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Yep, and for the reason I stated.
I figure if I can show up to the drags, plant my right foot & run a low 14, why bother with drag radials?
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If 14's is good enough for you, well good for you.
I do what suits my fancy and many/most times people don't understand. I'm cool with that.
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When I used to race BetaCat, which ran 14.40s @ 94, I lost many a race due to the slightest chirp of the rear G-60-14 tires on the launch. That car left hard! Hard enough that the nose of the 3rd member was smacking the floorpan and the driveshaft weights were trying to wear their way through the tunnel! But it ran out of steam at five grand due to stock exhaust.
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