Long Neglected Project
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Thread: Long Neglected Project

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    Southern Cal
    Posts
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    Long Neglected Project

    Hello

    Here is my long neglected project. Last ran Feb 84, developed a rod nock, so I parked it with the intentions of putting together a 427 to go in but never finished.

    Specs:
    390
    428 SCJ Heads
    Cam: Old Greg Foreman-Gus Davis Grind .600" lift Dur ???
    2 1/8 Hooker's
    Built C-6, 3,500 Stall
    Locker 4:57

    Consolidating my storages, so I am going to start to put it back together since it has come out of the cat cave.






    Last edited by 1967 XR7 GT; June 9th, 2013 at 09:37 PM.
    Richard

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
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    Grafton, Ohio
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    61
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    5,470

    Re: Long Neglected Project

    Hmmmm, Am I missing something, or is the OP trying to say that he's finished with his project????

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Upstate, NY
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    2,055

    Re: Long Neglected Project

    It says you are the OP.
    1974 Dodge Dart - daily driver
    1968 XR7 F code - diamond blue/blue
    1968 XR7 J code - black/red
    1968 J code - madras blue/aqua
    1968 XR7 X code - lime frost/dark ivy gold
    1968 GT-E XR7 W code prototype no. 500033 - red/black

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  5. #4
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    Re: Long Neglected Project

    When you hover the curser over the title on the thread page it shows you the beginning of the original text. When I opened this thread yesterday though all it showed was a space holder, or something like that. Now even that is gone and it looks like Cougarcj is the OP. Sounds a job for ECI Bob to fix.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    NJ
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    13,577

    Re: Long Neglected Project

    Guess I am the only guy approving moderated posts, but okay, done.

    Now, I have a comment: And I thought my headers hung low!!! Any wagers on how big the flat spots are on the bottoms of these babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1967 XR7 GT View Post
    Isabel: The realization of a seven year long dream:

    Hidden Content

    Hidden Content

    Canted--Texan on the351cforum: "One of my most impressive attributes is that.......a lot of people don't like me.....or the horse I rode in on"

  7. #6
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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    54
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    11,950

    Re: Long Neglected Project

    Yeah - WHOAA! Those were meant to leave road rash everywhere you go huh? Who built that bundle-o-snakes!
    1969 E-cat warmed-over 351W AOD

    1969 XR7 S Code vert in progress

    1968 F code XR7 - waiting for re-imbursment from bro-in law :>\

    1998 F150 4x4 D.D - 300k on the clock!

    2001 F150 4x4 backup for 98 ;>P

    2 x 1985 Suzuki Madura 1200's. One done - one in progress

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Southern Cal
    Posts
    46

    Re: Long Neglected Project

    Quote Originally Posted by 1969XR7Vert View Post
    Guess I am the only guy approving moderated posts, but okay, done.

    Now, I have a comment: And I thought my headers hung low!!! Any wagers on how big the flat spots are on the bottoms of these babies?
    No flat spots yet, you can't see because of the angle of the shot but they have 6" of ground clearance. Apparently my post was approved, as I was able to edit it, but shortly after it disappeared, so thanks for fixing it.

    Originaly I had 1 7/8" hooker's on it with 1 1/2 coils removed, then I put the 2 1/8" on and was worried I would destroy them, so i put complete coils back in. Actually the 2 1/8 headers have more ground clearance after it was raised back up than when it had the 1 7/8" lowered. But I am going to have new collectors made moving the 2 bottom pipes up to the sides of the top 2 pipes, for some extra clearance.

    Some one asked, the headers are Hooker 2 1/8" Adjustable Drag Headers, which came with a bunch of 3" piece's so you can adjust the primary tube length. I don't know if they make them any more or not?
    Last edited by 1967 XR7 GT; June 11th, 2013 at 03:41 PM.
    Richard

  9. #8
    Join Date
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    Re: Long Neglected Project

    Quote Originally Posted by 1969XR7Vert View Post
    Guess I am the only guy approving moderated posts, but okay, done.
    It's a tough job Bob but someone has to do it. Thanks.

    Randy Goodling
    CCOA #95

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    Southern Cal
    Posts
    46

    Re: Long Neglected Project

    My Pic's were lost so here they are again.

    I have a 67 427 Side Oiler block only, that I have been pricing engine parts and machine work on, $225 if it needs a Line Hone, $150 if it needs to be decked, $120 to have it Sonic checked I should of fixed it a long time ago, would of been much cheaper. Back when I originally parked the car because of the rod knock and was sourcing parts for the 427, the steel 427 crank was out of my price range even back then, so I picked up a 361 steel truck crank but it's only 3.50" stroke and a 391 steel truck 3.78" stoke crank. In my research back then, there was a issue of spinning rod bearings on the 427 steel cranks, it was discovered that with the oil holes placed on the side of the journals even crossed drilled and when that journal had the piston at TDC, there wasn't enough oil film on the journal to keep it off the bearing. Well the fix was to move the oil holes on the rod jrl's closer to the top of the jrl, so that when the piston was at TDC there was a oil supply when the piston was going thru it's power stroke. The fix was never added to the steel 427 cranks, they were only produced what 3 years, but it was added to the steel 361 & 391 truck cranks, and this was not because they were high horse power motors but because they were high torque motors, for instance a 391 motor in a dump truck, the loads put on the piston at TDC or thruout the power stroke could be a problem if there was no oil film on the jrl. Enough of the trivia.

    The Super Ford Magazine March 1993 issue, the 474 Stoker Fe article built by former Kuntz & Craft Performance who did a lot of this build for competitors who ran Super Street, Super Gas, Fast Bracket and dirt tracks: It starts with a .030 over 427 block, 3.980" 428 crank, offset ground to 4.125" stroke to a 2.310" rod jrl which is the same size as the 400M, the rods are the 6.580" 400M rods bushed for a .912" pin which K&C had tested to over 8000rpm. The rods are about .100" longer than FE rods, and the big ends are narrowed to .873 to fit the pins. I picked up the 400M rods some time ago along with the cranks, so I have options.

    So, I could have either of these cranks offset ground to increase the strokes and have a steel crank option. But in my recent parts research I found a lot of the FE stroker crank kits now are going to the 2.200" BBC rod jrl size and using the BBC 6.700" rods, so that got me thinking, I could have the 361 crank off set ground to the BBC 2.200" jrl and get it out to the 3.78" stroke and use the BBC 6.700" rods and take the extra length of the BBC rods out of the pistons CH, which reduce the reciprocating weight of the heavy pistons.

    I have a 68 4x4 pickup with a 428 in it with the early Galaxie cast iron headers, and a Shelby 427 manifold on it, and I have been tossing around the idea of pulling that motor and dropping it in the Cougar for the time being till I can afford to build the 427. It has a RV cam in it so maybe swap the cam out of the 390, but I need to see what heads it has on it. I am not looking to build a high HP monster motor, that takes a tank of gas to go around the block, I'll be looking to pull the 4:57's out at some point and put in some 3:50's or 3:70's.

    Here are a couple of links to other FE builds that I found that had good info.

    http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ra_jet_engine/

    http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...e/viewall.html







    .
    Richard

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Southern Cal
    Posts
    46

    Re: Long Neglected Project

    My Pic's were lost so here they are again.

    I have a 67 427 Side Oiler block only, that I have been pricing engine parts and machine work on, $225 if it needs a Line Hone, $150 if it needs to be decked, $120 to have it Sonic checked I should of fixed it a long time ago, would of been much cheaper. Back when I originally parked the car because of the rod knock and was sourcing parts for the 427, the steel 427 crank was out of my price range even back then, so I picked up a 361 steel truck crank but it's only 3.50" stroke and a 391 steel truck 3.78" stoke crank. In my research back then, there was a issue of spinning rod bearings on the 427 steel cranks, it was discovered that with the oil holes placed on the side of the journals even crossed drilled and when that journal had the piston at TDC, there wasn't enough oil film on the journal to keep it off the bearing. Well the fix was to move the oil holes on the rod jrl's closer to the top of the jrl, so that when the piston was at TDC there was a oil supply when the piston was going thru it's power stroke. The fix was never added to the steel 427 cranks, they were only produced what 3 years, but it was added to the steel 361 & 391 truck cranks, and this was not because they were high horse power motors but because they were high torque motors, for instance a 391 motor in a dump truck, the loads put on the piston at TDC or thruout the power stroke could be a problem if there was no oil film on the jrl. Enough of the trivia.

    The Super Ford Magazine March 1993 issue, the 474 Stoker Fe article built by former Kuntz & Craft Performance who did a lot of this build for competitors who ran Super Street, Super Gas, Fast Bracket and dirt tracks: It starts with a .030 over 427 block, 3.980" 428 crank, offset ground to 4.125" stroke to a 2.310" rod jrl which is the same size as the 400M, the rods are the 6.580" 400M rods bushed for a .912" pin which K&C had tested to over 8000rpm. The rods are about .100" longer than FE rods, and the big ends are narrowed to .873 to fit the pins. I picked up the 400M rods some time ago along with the cranks, so I have options.

    So, I could have either of these cranks offset ground to increase the strokes and have a steel crank option. But in my recent parts research I found a lot of the FE stroker crank kits now are going to the 2.200" BBC rod jrl size and using the BBC 6.700" rods, so that got me thinking, I could have the 361 crank off set ground to the BBC 2.200" jrl and get it out to the 3.78" stroke and use the BBC 6.700" rods and take the extra length of the BBC rods out of the pistons CH, which reduce the reciprocating weight of the heavy pistons.

    I have a 68 4x4 pickup with a 428 in it with the early Galaxie cast iron headers, and a Shelby 427 manifold on it, and I have been tossing around the idea of pulling that motor and dropping it in the Cougar for the time being till I can afford to build the 427. It has a RV cam in it so maybe swap the cam out of the 390, but I need to see what heads it has on it. I am not looking to build a high HP monster motor, that takes a tank of gas to go around the block, I'll be looking to pull the 4:57's out at some point and put in some 3:50's or 3:70's.

    Here are a couple of links to other FE builds that I found that had good info.

    http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ra_jet_engine/

    http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...e/viewall.html







    .
    Richard

  12. #11

    Re: Long Neglected Project

    I know how this can happen. My 68 XR7 390 GT was last road worthy in 1984. A cracked cylinder wall made me pull out the engine, long story but the short block was then stolen from my garage. George Pils of SSRE built me a 428 with hooker super comps which, knowing the state of the roads here in the UK, will at best leave there mark, at worst leave bits of my exhaust on the road for me to pick up on the way back.

    Since then two houses, one wife and two children have 'delayed' the project but I hope to get the cougar back on the road this year.

    Regards,

    John
    Last edited by johncougaruk; July 10th, 2013 at 11:49 AM.

  13. #12
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    Jun 2013
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    Re: Long Neglected Project

    I agree, a lot has gone on in 29 years, and I have always wanted to get back to finish her up, so I will slowly work on her as time and money allows. And it was nice to see I am not the only one in this situation.

    Here is the type of collector I was referring too for extra ground clearance. Then having the primaries re-routed to the higher position of the collector will give 2 more inches of ground clearance. And I will be also looking at maybe taking 1 to 2 inches out of the upper primaries to raise the collector itself if possible for even more clearance.

    Richard

  14. #13
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    Re: Long Neglected Project

    Quote Originally Posted by 1967 XR7 GT View Post
    I agree, a lot has gone on in 29 years, and I have always wanted to get back to finish her up, so I will slowly work on her as time and money allows. And it was nice to see I am not the only one in this situation.

    Here is the type of collector I was referring too for extra ground clearance. Then having the primaries re-routed to the higher position of the collector will give 2 more inches of ground clearance. And I will be also looking at maybe taking 1 to 2 inches out of the upper primaries to raise the collector itself if possible for even more clearance.

    These are a great idea if there is sufficient horizontal room and you are making your own headers.
    Isabel: The realization of a seven year long dream:

    Hidden Content

    Hidden Content

    Canted--Texan on the351cforum: "One of my most impressive attributes is that.......a lot of people don't like me.....or the horse I rode in on"

  15. #14
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    Re: Long Neglected Project

    when you offset grind a 428 crank you can safely go to .150 offset without breaking thru to a oil hole---i used .400 long bb chev alum rods with the .150 ofset crank and a .020 over 428 block---377 chev dome pistons w/7075 pres fit bushings in the bb rod sm end to fit the sb chev pins---gives about 447 cu in with a block that is only .020 o/size----filled the block to the water pump holes w/rockblock and used 1960 352 hipo heads-----i've never lost a cast crank or brg but those damn thin walls will get you every time----the 391 truck cranks require too much machining to get the weight off--good luck on your project

  16. #15
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    Jun 2013
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    46

    Re: Long Neglected Project

    I have decided to stay stock stroke, so I picked up an early forged factory crank (Pictured) for my SO build, this one comes with two additional center counter weights. From what I was able to find out, this crank came in the 64 427 HR and in the TBolts and is listed in the 427 7000 RPM Kits and was used as a Nascar Crank.

    I sent it to a crank shop to get a check-up and a clean up, and will post pics when I get it.

    I think around 450 Hp is more than enough, I don't really need any more, I just want it reliable with very little maintence, is the reason for not going a stroker.

    I'm going to use the car as a daily driver, so will go around the size of the cam I currently have in my 390, drop the stall to 2500 and drop the gears to 3.25's to 3.50's until I can afford a Gear Vendors Over Drive Unit.

    I am going to be looking for main bearings, and since the cranks mains are grooved the bearings don't have to be, but so far most I have found are, either fully or 3/4 grooved, and would like to find some that aren't. I know good luck.



    Last edited by 1967 XR7 GT; October 27th, 2013 at 07:48 PM.

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