Buffing single stage paint [Archive] - Classic Cougar Forums

: Buffing single stage paint



nymorey
July 8th, 2009, 09:23 PM
Is single stage paint harder to buff out swirl marks and scratches than CC/BC?
I have some scratches and swirl marks and the like that I have been trying to work out. Some of the scratches are deep but not to metal.

First I used my $40 DA buffer from Pep boys with several grades of buffing compounds on a foam pad (from agressive to mild). After a gallon of each and getting no where I moved to my orbital buffer (dewalt varispeed). It worked better but it threw so much compound around my garage than it left on the pad that I had a tough time using it. It was easier to put some pressure on the pad whereas the DA buffer loses the orbital and seems to just vibrate with too much pressure.

But I had been buffing the fender everynight for a week and no very little headway

So I decided to order the meguiar DA buffer which I did. I also decided I would wet sand the fender as everyone says you can really bring out the shine and get rid of some of the seeper marks. So I used 1500 grit paper soak in soap water and gently worked the top of the fender. Now I am trying to buff out the 1500 grit sand marks! Their coming out but ever so slowly. I'll be using 5 gallons of compound by the time I'm done, sheesh.

So what is the trick? I watch these guys on the car shows and they buff the scratches and swirl marks right out and you guys talk about it like its a 5 minute job. :realmad:

1970fastcat
July 8th, 2009, 09:38 PM
it shouldnt be that big of a deal, what kind of compounds are you using? a wool pad will help get the sand marks out easier, the foam is meant for final buffing. Its not Imron paint is it? or some other super ninja hard paint? I have even buffed Imron without that much effort.

nymorey
July 8th, 2009, 10:00 PM
it shouldnt be that big of a deal, what kind of compounds are you using? a wool pad will help get the sand marks out easier, the foam is meant for final buffing. Its not Imron paint is it? or some other super ninja hard paint? I have even buffed Imron without that much effort.

I'm using Mequiars compound and I have one bottle of 3M rubbing compound.
It is LIMCO paint

67.5xr7
July 8th, 2009, 10:05 PM
When you sand,.. are you sanding in a circular fashion?? I was taught to follow the lenght of the car, sanding always in a linear strokes (similar to the way you sand wood), with my paper around a neoprene block.. that way you will not end up with sanding swirls.

1970fastcat
July 8th, 2009, 10:10 PM
those arent the best compounds but they should work good. Try going back over the 1500 sand marks with 2000 or higher and it should make it easier to get out. Try the rubbing compound on a wool pad first if you have one and then go back with the other stuff on the foam pad. You should be able to pick up some 2000 at autozone or some other parts store, i just got some from there the other day because i didnt feel like driving 25 miles to my paint supplier. Since it is older paint then you may want to go as fine as possible with the final step of sandpaper since it is nice and hard now. also what 67.5xr7 said, straight line sanding will show less once buffed than what Mr. Miagi taught Daniel to do

nymorey
July 8th, 2009, 10:11 PM
When you sand,.. are you sanding in a circular fashion?? I was taught to follow the lenght of the car, sanding always in a linear strokes (similar to the way you sand wood), with my paper around a neoprene block.. that way you will not end up with sanding swirls.

Nope -no swirling, only sanded with length of the car. I did not use a block.

The sanding is not really the issue. They are buffing out but ever so slowly and I'm going through compound like crazy. The deeper scratches aren't even being touched.

nymorey
July 8th, 2009, 10:13 PM
those arent the best compounds but they should work good. Try going back over the 1500 sand marks with 2000 or higher and it should make it easier to get out. Try the rubbing compound on a wool pad first if you have one and then go back with the other stuff on the foam pad. You should be able to pick up some 2000 at autozone or some other parts store, i just got some from there the other day because i didnt feel like driving 25 miles to my paint supplier. Since it is older paint then you may want to go as fine as possible with the final step of sandpaper since it is nice and hard now.

I have some 2000 grit, I will try that.

I'm not sure I can find a wool pad to fit my DA buffer but I will look tomorrow and I'm not going back to slinging compound around my shop with the orbital buffer.

1970fastcat
July 8th, 2009, 10:23 PM
I have some 2000 grit, I will try that.

I'm not sure I can find a wool pad to fit my DA buffer but I will look tomorrow and I'm not going back to slinging compound around my shop with the orbital buffer.

Ok i hate to say it but the DA wont get it done. Anything DA or random orbital wont get the scratches or swirls out great. The only thing that works good is high speed buff. Need something around 1500 to 2000 RPM's with a 6 to 10 inch diameter. The actual science behind buffing paint has a lot to do with heat, on a microscopic level it actually makes the paint flow a tiny bit, the compounds of today are designed to not to do this much because the paints are softer and less britle, thats when they started using the foam pads instead of wool. It may actually help to pull it ouside in the sun, just be careful not to get it too hot and burn it

nymorey
July 8th, 2009, 10:31 PM
Ok i hate to say it but the DA wont get it done. Anything DA or random orbital wont get the scratches or swirls out great. The only thing that works good is high speed buff. Need something around 1500 to 2000 RPM's with a 6 to 10 inch diameter.

So how do I keep the compound from slinging all over the place?
Also is the pad held flat or on it's edge

1970fastcat
July 8th, 2009, 10:43 PM
Start it off real slow and just work the compound into the pad and get it spread kinda thin. You are going to have some sling no matter what, i have been hosing the outside of my house off every afternoon when i get done working on my truck. I would say do it outside if possible. It should be held kinda flat but picked up to one side just a little, so that one side of the pad is doing most of the work. It can also be done flat if you can control it well. Dont try to get it up on the edge too much if you can help it, if you have to to get in tight spots then just be very careful with it. The outside edge of the buffer is the part that can burn paint the easiest since it is the fastest moving part of it

Bad69cat
July 8th, 2009, 11:11 PM
Most single stagers don't buff out easily and will clog up your 2000 paper quickly too. Very easy to burn it with power tools. Some won't hold a gloss if you sand them because they are designed to level and gloss on the top - if you remove it you lose the paints gloss and will need to constantly add compounds to keep the "gloss". 3M used to make a series designed to do them and it's quite the process to go through. I'd check with your paint jobber and see if they still make it. (3 stages if memory serves)

MikeB
July 9th, 2009, 01:33 AM
I believe it's called Imperial compound , from 3m , it worked on my super hard single stage , but I didn't color sand it. I would check with the paint jobber guys too. This worked reasonably well for me, and I worked through Meguir's stuff courser cut to fine, then glaze/wax.

roman_back
July 9th, 2009, 07:54 AM
I agree with 1970fastcat.. a DA will not do it... you need a good air or electric grinder/buffer with a 6'' pad.. dewalt, nikita and milwalkee all make good ones for around 200 bucks.

nymorey
July 9th, 2009, 05:59 PM
I agree with 1970fastcat.. a DA will not do it... you need a good air or electric grinder/buffer with a 6'' pad.. dewalt, nikita and milwalkee all make good ones for around 200 bucks.

I have the DeWalt.
Guess I might as well go get my coverall on get ready to sling some compound!

1970fastcat
July 9th, 2009, 08:01 PM
Haha, i just walked in from finishing the hood on my truck, i am covered in dust and compound myself, but it turned out nice, hope yours does too

nymorey
July 9th, 2009, 08:10 PM
Haha, i just walked in from finishing the hood on my truck, i am covered in dust and compound myself, but it turned out nice, hope yours does too

Well the wool pad with the 3m compound on the Dewalt worked. I set the speed for 1000. It buffed out the sanding marks lickitey-split. Compound was everywhere.

Then I used a foam pad on the DA with a meguiar's swirl remover to bring back the shine, next a glaze then some wax.

Would a foam pad on the dewalt with the swirl remover work better than the DA buffer?
Would it be better to use an intermediate compound after the 3m rubbung and before the swirl remover?

roman_back
July 9th, 2009, 08:28 PM
yea... use the dewalt... i would just sell the DA or just forget it exsists for buffing usage.

1970fastcat
July 9th, 2009, 08:29 PM
yeah black or blue foam pad on the high speed with the swirl remover works best. No need in anything between really, i am using the 3M extra cut and swirl remover with nothing between and it looks great.

nymorey
July 9th, 2009, 08:41 PM
Last question.

Pad maintenance. I have them in plastic bags labeled for the compound on them. I have been scrapeing the them with a plastic spreader.
Should they be washed and dried?

1970fastcat
July 9th, 2009, 08:59 PM
you can wash them but let them air dry, dont use soap on them either, especially on the wool one, the lanolin in the wool is key for lubricating and cooling

roman_back
July 10th, 2009, 10:03 AM
you can wash them but let them air dry, dont use soap on them either, especially on the wool one, the lanolin in the wool is key for lubricating and cooling

what he said lol..

tbm3fan
July 10th, 2009, 04:58 PM
Check out this link. I use much of the stuff in this link for doing my work on the truck I am in the process of painting. Great forum and there is a professional detailer, Robert, who does very high end cars and posts on the forum how to do this type of thing correctly.


http://autobodystore.com/compound.shtml

Bad69cat
July 16th, 2009, 10:58 PM
great post tbm! --- ever tried that Sure Finish stuff they advertise? Sounds good..


Sounds like Ray has the wax on wax off thing down pat now! Messy stuff huh!!