Why won't it start or run now
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Thread: Why won't it start or run now

  1. #46
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    Re: Why won't it start or run now

    Quote Originally Posted by Leroy Reeves View Post
    Royce I think he said it fires and starts when the key is in the start position, but dies when the key is moved to the run position. Wouldn't this eliminate everything past the coil as possible problems? Of course this would also negate my intermittant ground theory too, since it wouldn't fire in the start position if the ground wasn't there. He has already tried reverting back to points and I believe he said he tried a different ignition module. I don't remember him saying anything about trying a different coil.

    If it starts when the key is in the start position and dies in the run position, I would think the primary suspects would be the ignition switch, wire from the ignition switch to the tach, the tach, the resistor wire from the tach to the firewall connector, the firewall connector itself or the wire from the firewall connector to the coil as far as hardware is concerned. The only other factor is that in the start position, the coil and ignition module are getting a full 12V, but in the run position they get less volts and current when the resistor wire is engaged.
    I have replaced the coil, along with everything else (starter solenoid, ignition switch, and module, etc).

    Here is the run through of what it doing again.
    The car will sometimes start and run just fine. When it runs I have 12 volts heading into the coil and 6 volts heading to the distributor. The car can will be running just fine and then I will shut it off. 30 seconds, 5 minutes, etc later and it won't start at all. I still have 12 volts heading into the coil and 12 coming out heading to the distributor for starting purposes like it's supposed to. It will drop back down to 6 volts like it's supposed to as well. Sometimes though you can come back to it 5 minutes after you shut it off and it will turn right back on. Sometimes it'll run for about a week with no problems and then it just dies. When it dies it just turns over and over and over. During this time all the voltages still check out.

    Now I have replaced the coil, starter solenoid, ignition switch, distributor, and the eliminator module (Note the old module still functions just fine as far as I can tell as I have had it back in too and the car does the same thing). I have tried heading back to points and it does the exact same thing. I have checked all the wire connections and everything checks out. I have tried bypassing the tach and the car does the same thing.

    On a side note. I was going to install the resistance wire tonight. The only problem is that the the old resistance wire is tied into a 4 way hard plug while this new one is not meant for that type of connection. It's just a female connection on both ends. So I have not installed the new wire, but at the same time everything checks out with this old wire as far as I can tell. So I'm not going to replace it quite yet, and even then I don't see how you attach it since the terminal ends are different.

    Thank you for all the help.

  2. #47
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    Re: Why won't it start or run now

    Quote Originally Posted by xr7g428 View Post


    A jumper wire from battery positive to coil positive will eliminate the ignition switch and the resistor wire from the circuit. The way to find a problem like this, absent the use of a good VOM, is to eliminate by substitution.
    Do this^ but jump the firewall connection, ignition switch, resistance wire, tach separately to determine where the broken circuit is.

    That said, personally I dislike point eliminators i.e., pertronix, unilite, the Crane thingy. Sooner or later they always give problems (My experience).
    Points work great. A quality set of points properly lubed and adjusted should last 5K miles at least.
    I've had the best service from a good ol' rebuilt Duraspark distributor, HEI cap and wires, Duraspark coil and MSD.
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  3. #48
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    Re: Why won't it start or run now

    The problem here is bad troubleshooting technique. None of the parts needed replacing. It is does seem to be a wire or connection causing the problem. Like Art says just install jumper leads to temporarily install the new resistance wire. Should take about 5 minutes.
    Royce Peterson
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  4. #49
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    Re: Why won't it start or run now

    Quote Originally Posted by Art View Post
    That said, personally I dislike point eliminators i.e., pertronix, unilite, the Crane thingy. Sooner or later they always give problems (My experience).
    Points work great. A quality set of points properly lubed and adjusted should last 5K miles at least.
    I've had the best service from a good ol' rebuilt Duraspark distributor, HEI cap and wires, Duraspark coil and MSD.
    QFT (Quoted For Truth). Gotta agree with Art here too.
    I no longer post here. Come to the other site if you want to communicate with me.

  5. #50
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    Re: Why won't it start or run now

    So are you getting spark when it won't start?

    When it won't start, lift the coil wire from the center of the distributor cap. You should get a spark jumping the gap when you hold the wire close ot the center cap opening. You should even be able to hear the soft click of the spark. IF you are getting a spark here, then you need to pull a plug wire and hook it up to a plug that is grounded to the block to verify that you are getting spark through the cap and rotor.
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  6. #51
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    Re: Why won't it start or run now

    Quote Originally Posted by xr7g428 View Post
    So are you getting spark when it won't start?

    When it won't start, lift the coil wire from the center of the distributor cap. You should get a spark jumping the gap when you hold the wire close ot the center cap opening. You should even be able to hear the soft click of the spark. IF you are getting a spark here, then you need to pull a plug wire and hook it up to a plug that is grounded to the block to verify that you are getting spark through the cap and rotor.
    I still get spark even when it doesn't start. I've pulled wires and checked and every one gets spark.

    So here is what I did today on her.
    I ran a new wire from the coil to my new resistance wire. I hooked in the resistance wire and by passed the tach. The car still won't start. I checked the spark at each of the cylinders and I have it. I still have 12 volts heading into the coil and 6 coming out yet it still didn't start. I then ran the test wire from the battery over to the coil to see if it would start. Still nothing........

    So I pulled out the points eliminator kit and put points back into it to see what it would do...... and it started. The setup when used when it started with the points was the new resistance wire and new wire heading into the coil. I did not have the test wire coming over from the battery over to the coil. Yet here again nothing changed voltage wise I still had 12 volts going into the coil, and 6 coming out.

    After it started I then pulled the points back out and put in the module again and it wouldn't start. However nothing changed. I still have spark at each one of the spark plugs, 12 volts into the coil, 6 coming out.....

    So I am very lost on why it's doing this? I mean if I have fuel and spark then it should fire? Nothing voltage wise changes. And when I change from points to the points eliminator kit I still have spark at the spark plugs and no voltage change in the system. I'm concerned that I will go and drive it (not that I have much of a driving season left here in Utah) and that it's going to die on me in some parking lot. It's done it with the points eliminator kit and with points. I am so bewildered.

  7. #52
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    Re: Why won't it start or run now

    You have a weak spark because the points eliminator kit is no f'ing good.
    Royce Peterson
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  8. #53
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    Re: Why won't it start or run now

    Just for reclarification: When you are having the problem with it not starting, does it always start when the key is in start position and then die when you let the ignition switch move back to the run position or does it not even try to start when the key is in the start position? We are all looking at this from the perspective that it fires up and starts to run in the start position and then when you release the key and let it move back to the run position it dies.
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  9. #54
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    Re: Why won't it start or run now

    Not to be a smart A--, but if my front door key lock doesn't work, and I install a new one, and it works, REINSTALLING the lock that doesn't work doesn't seem to me like that will MAKE it work. It's dead. IMHO

    I wish you well, this has been a long process, but I find it hard to believe it should have.

    Nothing personal, for sure!

    Dale in Indy

  10. #55
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    Re: Why won't it start or run now

    Quote Originally Posted by Smith Brother View Post
    Not to be a smart A--, but if my front door key lock doesn't work, and I install a new one, and it works, REINSTALLING the lock that doesn't work doesn't seem to me like that will MAKE it work. It's dead. IMHO

    I wish you well, this has been a long process, but I find it hard to believe it should have.

    Nothing personal, for sure!

    Dale in Indy
    Dale, what the hell are you typing about?
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  11. #56
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    Re: Why won't it start or run now

    The part in question failed the A-B-A test.
    Does not surprise me.
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  12. #57
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    Re: Why won't it start or run now

    Quote Originally Posted by Leroy Reeves View Post
    Just for reclarification: When you are having the problem with it not starting, does it always start when the key is in start position and then die when you let the ignition switch move back to the run position or does it not even try to start when the key is in the start position? We are all looking at this from the perspective that it fires up and starts to run in the start position and then when you release the key and let it move back to the run position it dies.
    Sometimes it'll start in the start position and other times it'll just sit there and turn and turn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smith Brother View Post
    Not to be a smart A--, but if my front door key lock doesn't work, and I install a new one, and it works, REINSTALLING the lock that doesn't work doesn't seem to me like that will MAKE it work. It's dead. IMHO

    I wish you well, this has been a long process, but I find it hard to believe it should have.

    Nothing personal, for sure!

    Dale in Indy
    None taken lol. It makes sense.

  13. #58
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    Re: Why won't it start or run now

    If it is also not starting with the key in the start position, then the list of potential problems gets bigger. The problem is not limited to the run circuit. In the start position, the tach and resistor wire are bypassed potentially eliminating them as the source of the problem. Since you have had the same problem with more than one set of points and ignition modules and with more than one coil and more than one distributor, I am wondering if your problem is actually electrical in nature. Maybe its time to start looking at the fuel system, compression in the cylinders, etc.....Clogged fuel filter, Weak fuel pump, stuck check valve in the gas cap, vacuum leaks.....
    A stuck valve in the gas cap would prevent air from being able to get into the tank to replace the fuel, creating a vacuum which will eventually overpower the fuel pump. When it won't start, remove the gas cap and see if it will start.
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  14. #59
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    Re: Why won't it start or run now

    Well I wish I could report that the car started today, but it didn't. It's doing the exact same thing. I still have all the right voltages, and I haven't changed anything from the other day when it started with the points. It the start position it just cranks and cranks and occasionally it will try and start.

    I have looked at the fuel system. The pump is good, there's no clogged filters, I drained the gas tank and put new gas in it. I've looked for vacuum leaks and haven't found any.

    Why why won't you start?

  15. #60
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    Re: Why won't it start or run now

    wasn't there something recently about a 180 degree problem on a distributor?

    just shooting in the dark for you... I'm no mechanic!

    Jean

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