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Okay, You got me. Why conceal VIN numbers and tag numbers?

3K views 25 replies 14 participants last post by  sixt9coug 
#1 ·
I just can't seem to figure this one out. Why hide these when you are selling a car? I could walk through any parking lot and see these all day long, If I look at a car in person, then I can see the numbers, so why hide them when the car is for sale?
 
#6 ·
Bill your original question in this thread is something, in general form, I've been wanting to ask for some time. In all the years I've been collecting vins etc. for the database, until yesterday, I've never had anyone prove to me that such attempted thefts actually occur. I've now found one (yea verily, 1, uno) and even here the person to whom this happened admits that if his car had been documented in a national database it would have been even easier to prove the car was his (which he did finally). That said, there's the point that to list a car for sale should mean making it easy for someone to purchase it. So, a lister who discriminates between those who can't come and see the car immediately, or maybe ever, and those who live across town, substantially restricts his market. I cannot fathom a person buying a car (particularly a Cougar or period piece) without having all of the pertinent numbers and performing due diligence by checking those numbers against the national database and or the F-L-M production database. I realize not everyone agrees with me, but I'm of the opinion that the more the national database knows about a car, the more it is protected. That said, all of my Cougar's vins, data tags, license plate numbers, marti reports, CACS, build sheets, and copies of titles are all on file there. It is sort of a offsite safety deposit box for car documentation. And then, I've notified my insurance carrier (Hagerty) where duplicate copies of all of this stuff is, just in case. That's my two cents worth (suitably adjusted for inflation :)
 
#10 ·
That said, all of my Cougar's vins, data tags, license plate numbers, marti reports, CACS, build sheets, and copies of titles are all on file there.
Awesome! Now I have the finishing touch for my Cougar One clone!
Kidding of course.:evil:

I think perhaps the main reason people might not show the VIN is that it somehow just 'feels' weird. Subconsciously , it might be likened putting out your Soc. Sec. number out there. Just a thought anyway...
 
#7 ·
Maybe just urban legend, 'cause I can't say I've ever known anyone first-hand that this has happened to, but here's the scenario I've heard about:

With a VIN, tag number and a few photos in hand, Larry Lowlife takes out an insurance policy on a '68 Corvette that he hasn't actually bothered to purchase. Soon thereafter he reports the car stolen, collects the insurance $$ and slithers away.
Meanwhile, you, the owner of said 'vette, have no idea about any of this. Months later, you're pulled over for a defective tag light. Officer Friendly calls in the information on the radio, and gets back a stolen car "hit." Eventually, especially if you've owned the car for several years, you won't have any trouble showing that you're the legitimate owner. But things could be "interesting" in the meantime.
Worst case scenario, you bought the car at auction, maybe from someone you've never met, several states away. Perhaps even the same eBay sale where Larry got his pics and VIN. You've got no proof that the car was yours prior to it being reported stolen. Sure, you'll eventually be able to prove you're a legitimate owner in lawful possession of the car, but how are you going to do it from the County Jail or the back of a patrol car? Even if you happen to have the bill of sale and auction paperwork with you, your documentation is just going to show that the car came into your possession right around the time the police report was filed. That's less than helpful.
Of course, Larry could get his pics and all the information he needs off the car at a car show, or just seeing it parked out on the street somewhere. But the odds of him coming across your car in person are less, and its more work for him, than if the information is posted right on the internet for all to see. Probably the odds are pretty low anyhow, but I can understand not wanting to make things easy for the Larrys out there.
 
#18 ·
Maybe just urban legend, 'cause I can't say I've ever known anyone first-hand that this has happened to, but here's the scenario I've heard about:

With a VIN, tag number and a few photos in hand, Larry Lowlife takes out an insurance policy on a '68 Corvette that he hasn't actually bothered to purchase. Soon thereafter he reports the car stolen, collects the insurance $$ and slithers away.
I'm sure any insurance company would require a police report in order to pay off such a claim.
I say urban legend, but I've never had a collector type car stolen.
 
#9 ·
Yo there CJ750 -- I've heard the same urban legends and rumors. And, there's probably some validity to them. But just like the rumors surrounding supposedly "factory" built 427 Mustangs, etc. etc. that's exactly what they are rumors - until such a time as documented evidence is produced. But, that said, let's assume there is a risk. Okay, don't post the numbers on the internet. But when a potential purchaser asks for them, don't come back with some malarkey about stolen vins etc. while at the same time showing the car to two Larry Lowlifes from across town. And, of course, I'm not here referring to you in specific -- rather the general "you" out there who do this sort of thing. On the one hand people want to prevent any possibility of someone stealing their car using the vin alone, but also don't bother with due diligence when they themselves buy a car (vin, etc.) and turn out to be the same dolts that then complain that they got screwed ! It just seems to me that fully documentation and recordation is your absolute best safeguard against the very fear (paranoia, maybe) that leads people to not reveal critical information on a car for sale. As I indicated before, just my two cents worth, but now greatly increased not only for monetary inflation, but spleen-venting too :)
 
#11 ·
Yeas ago I worked with the local county in their Information Technology area. If I knew your car tag number I could find out a rather large amount of data about you personally, your ssn, where you live, your birthdate, how much you paid for your car and much more. While the risk is small that someone would use that information in a bad way its just a small thing to go ahead and block it out, especially when it is broadcast across a global internet. Now VIN numbers I don't know about - maybe the same kind of thing, but I don't have experience there. Do you notice how the magazines like Mustangs & Fords and others usually blot out the license tag number? Send a letter to the editor and see if they'll explain their reasoning, that may provide some additional insights.

Vanity plates sort of make it all seem kind of silly in some way.
 
#12 ·
I went to a junk yard near me and asked to go back and see the cougars back in there yard. There are about 6 that have been there for many years and not much left but I thought I would go in to get the vin #s off the cars and have them recorded in a production database just for the record. The guy that I was talking to said he wasn't sure if they were going to let me go back for anything without someone being with me, I Mean this yard is filled with all kinds of cars from the 40s to 60s european and American. So he asked the big guy and in time he said ya go ahead. Well for some stupid reason I opend up my mouth and said that I would like to see if there were any vins on them so I could report them to be scrap/off the road kinda thing and right then he said that I was not able to even come back to that yard ever again, Im band from being there! It's too bad, lots of really cool stuff in there.
 
#13 ·
Well for some stupid reason I opend up my mouth and said that I would like to see if there were any vins on them so I could report them to be scrap/off the road kinda thing and right then he said that I was not able to even come back to that yard ever again, Im band from being there! It's too bad, lots of really cool stuff in there.
Too bad. I'm sure he did this for liability reasons. Either he is afraid of, or he knows that he has stolen cars back there. :uhoh:
 
#14 ·
Okay two more points -- (1) wrecking yards that have to maintain vin records for state inspectors, unless of course they are not a legitimate business, refusing to allow people to take down information on the cars they have. You ought to report to your/that state's attorney general. (2) years ago doesn't count -- anti-stalking laws in every state that I'm aware of makes obtaining this information even by a police officer, a matter of permanent record -- they just don't do it. And here's another point -- how come your insurance company offers a discount on your insurance rates if you have your vin number etched into the glass?
 
#15 ·
(2) years ago doesn't count -- anti-stalking laws in every state that I'm aware of makes obtaining this information even by a police officer, a matter of permanent record -- they just don't do it.
True, it is a deterrent to the honest people - the other ones find the law to be a very minor barrier, much like locking a screen door. Your relatives made a good living on those less than honest types of folks. Probably more than one or two out there who don't care there is a law against it. Having said that there are still plenty of currently legal ways to obtain the same information if one really wanted it.
 
#16 ·
One thing that he said (wrecking yard owner) is that he had someone use the vin number off of a car in there yard and the police found out about it some how. He says it's to protect himself. I really just love walking through yards like that, I would have to be strip serched before they would let me in there now.
:eek2:
 
#17 ·
Stolen cars seldom sit in slavage yards, but abandonded cars do. I purchased a car that had been damaged in a tornado. It was supposed to be in the "impound" yard. When we picked it up it had already been stripped of many parts, some of which were on the shelves in the "impound" yard. When we tried to claim the parts, the police were called on us! We lost, they won, we left without the parts. There was a happy ending of sorts. As it turns out, they were selling more parts than they were buying. This looks a whole lot like money laundering, or selling stolen goods. The Oklahoma Tax Commission gets the money thing...
 
#19 ·
The police report ain't nothin....anyone can go down to the local PD and file a bogus report.

Mr. slither's problem will be providing proof of ownership. He will have to have had a fake title made up to match the vin.
If this were a common problem with classics such as our cats, the availablility of very low cost high grade insurance would be much harder to procure/aquire.
 
#20 ·
Okay guys, here's a live one for you. Some knucklehead in Nashville, TN has a '68 GT listed on ebay, item 320207405915. He has a Marti report on the car, pictured, but of course you cannot read it. I asked him for the vin and left door data code plate information, and he says no, but goes on that I shouldn't waste his time asking for information he won't provide. This is the second time the guy listed the car, so do you suppose it may eventually dawn on his neanderthal-pea-sized brain that he isn't marketing the car correctly? Probably not -- he's fantasizing over the fact that some green-meanie is lurking in the woods to steal his modified ride. What a crock. Turns out he gave me enough information (color, state sold in, and production date) that enabled me to find out, so -- Hey all you Larry Lowlifes out there, the VIN NUMBER IS - 8F91S510310, and it is in fact a GT -- too bad his potential buyers will never know that !
 
#22 ·
That must be the one I was looking at this morning with the 1970 Mustang 428SCJ engine?
He gave the VIN number stamped on the engine from the Mustnag.

An enterprising person with that bit of information, could produce some paperwork claiming that the engine in that Cougar was the one that was in his Mach 1 which was stolen umteen years ago. I want my engine back, thanks for finding it.:evil:
 
#21 ·
One that Jim does not have...

I know of at least one GTE (very nice low mile) that the owner refuses to hand over a VIN or any details on because he got burned by doing so on another registry by folks calling wanting to buy it. I wonder Jim, if you prepared a doc showing the benefits of being listed in the data base / registry if more folks would seriously consider it as opposed to making an on the spot decision over the phone or email. Our human tendency is often to respond by throwing up the "NO" flag when we do not fully understand what is being asked of us. I Know I do it almost daily to telemarketers trying to give me something for free!
 
#24 ·
This doc could be posted on our site, the different registries, handed out as hard copies when guys like you or Royce are out and about and emailed to ebayers and contacts on the web as a follow up to a conversation. My site alone would ensure it was read by thousands over time.
 
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