1969 428CJ XR7 Convertible for sale [Archive] - Classic Cougar Forums

: 1969 428CJ XR7 Convertible for sale



428cougarguy
September 19th, 2007, 07:22 PM
Ebay link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercury-Cougar-428CJ-XR7-RARE-1969-COUGAR-CONVERTIBLE-XR7-R-CODE-428CJ-RAM-AIR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6339QQihZ002QQitemZ120163756575QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Nice project car...also a special order paint car which is unusual. I wonder what the original color of the car was - the seller doesn't mention what it could be, but you gotta think it was some type of nearly white paint since the inside the trunk paint looks pretty original.

A few incorrect items of note. Incorrect Holley carb, wrong Ram air foam seal (Torino type - not Cougar), hood lock pins have been added (not on the window sticker list - but that's not a bad thing in my opinion), missing smog, and wrong driver's door mirror.

On special order paint cars - they all received 'standard' square all chrome door mirrors - rather than bullet mirrors, since Mercury didn't stock door mirrors in any colors other than standard production colors, and they didn't 'custom' paint racing mirrors to match. Still - if it was my car - I would paint a pair of racing mirror to match the original paint and put them on.

Good luck bidding.

2720r
September 20th, 2007, 07:13 PM
I'm thinking this car is bad news all the way around with rust. See the damage to the driver's quarter and how the rust has split on the wheel arch? It wouldn't surprise me at all if this car needs nearly every panel replaced. Odd color too (or at least not to my taste) especially with a green interior.

Any speculation as to final price? I think it may be close to its top limit already.

I didn't know that about the chrome mirrors on special order paint cars. I learn new things here all the time.

alsancle
September 20th, 2007, 07:41 PM
I think I said this in the thread up top, but I believe it will go in the high twenties. The Blue Q code auto went mid-30s last year. Better body & color but no ram-air. I think the big ass hood scoop is really cool.

Plus, people come out of the woodwork for cars that have sat for a lot of years.

A.J.

2720r
September 23rd, 2007, 08:09 PM
Did anyone notice the lack of XR7 hockey sticks and door caps on this one? Everything else says XR7 (I think) but that doesn't match up. Maybe they were lost during the repaint.

boodieman
September 23rd, 2007, 10:20 PM
Anyone find it odd that this car was ordered "special paint" and the buyer selected off white/pale yellow with alligator green interior?

I mean, if I was going to take the time and spend the extra money to order special paint, I believe I could have come up w/ dozens of better combos than those two. And to think of all the colors Ford and Lincoln Mercury had to chose from in '69.

Don Rush
September 24th, 2007, 12:13 AM
Ebay link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercury-Cougar-428CJ-XR7-RARE-1969-COUGAR-CONVERTIBLE-XR7-R-CODE-428CJ-RAM-AIR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6339QQihZ002QQitemZ120163756575QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW



On special order paint cars - they all received 'standard' square all chrome door mirrors - rather than bullet mirrors, since Mercury didn't stock door mirrors in any colors other than standard production colors, and they didn't 'custom' paint racing mirrors to match. Still - if it was my car - I would paint a pair of racing mirror to match the original paint and put them on.

Good luck bidding.

I too did not know this. Does anyone else here have an unmolested 69/70 xr7 with special paint code that has the non xr7 chrome mirror? Have you ever seen documentation to support this. It sounds reasonable, I fully buy it, just wondering.

bnickel
September 24th, 2007, 02:58 AM
I too did not know this. Does anyone else here have an unmolested 69/70 xr7 with special paint code that has the non xr7 chrome mirror? Have you ever seen documentation to support this. It sounds reasonable, I fully buy it, just wondering.


mustangs were the same way, chrome standard mirrors only. they got thr mirrors from the supplier pre-painted in batches and they had no way to get the mirrors painted any of the special order colors. on the mustang you at least had a choice of whether or not you got the standard non-remote style mirror or the slightly nicer driver side remote with a matching passenger side mirror, i would assume it would be the same with the cougar as well

CougarCJ
September 24th, 2007, 09:24 AM
Maybe over at Mr A. O. Smith's they would take care of those special paint, special painted mirrors?

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w115/CougarCJ/XR7-Gmirror.jpg

Don Rush
September 24th, 2007, 11:09 AM
Maybe over at Mr A. O. Smith's they would take care of those special paint, special painted mirrors?

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w115/CougarCJ/XR7-Gmirror.jpg


Very good point Scott! As much money as the G option package cost I would be p*ssed if I got my special order paint G back with a chrome mirror!

Larry Whitaker
September 24th, 2007, 01:28 PM
I wonder if the 70 that's also for sale right now will affect the bidding on this one. It seems like this happens a lot. Two CJ's for sale at the same time.

alsancle
September 24th, 2007, 02:42 PM
Actually there is 3: http://www.mercurycougar.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31661

I was debating about putting mine on ebay and was actually happy to see the white one which would help establish current market. However, now with the SCJ on there too the market seems like it's a bit flooded!

As far as the two of them effecting each other. The blue SCJ will be fine. I believe the auction for the white CJ ends first and it's quite possible that bidders hold off with the idea they will go after the blue one. In land auctions, the order of the cars is very carefully calculated so that this doesn't happen.

2720r
September 24th, 2007, 06:15 PM
Is the special paint code documented anywhere else besides the door plate? Does a description of a special order paint color come on the Marti Report? There's nothing on the invoice to tell you that the color is ivory creamy white.

Don Rush
September 24th, 2007, 07:30 PM
I wonder if the 70 that's also for sale right now will affect the bidding on this one. It seems like this happens a lot. Two CJ's for sale at the same time.

Sometimes it helps. I know that whenever I have sold a home "For Sale By Owner" and a house down the street comes on the market with a Realtors sign in the yard I consider this a good thing!

Don Rush
September 24th, 2007, 07:34 PM
So if you had a special order paint color on your 70 Eliminator did you get shorted the PS mirror? Did they give you a credit? That would be enough to make me stick with the stock colors... Also, did they not allow you to order dual sport mirrors on your 71-3 when you got a special color?

Larry Whitaker
September 25th, 2007, 12:29 AM
So if you had a special order paint color on your 70 Eliminator did you get shorted the PS mirror? Did they give you a credit? That would be enough to make me stick with the stock colors... Also, did they not allow you to order dual sport mirrors on your 71-3 when you got a special color?

In the mid 80s CCOA had a story about a black special order paint (70?) Eliminator. A real one, documented by the Eminger factory invoice. If anyone has that old CCOA issue (I don't), it may have a picture. Maybe the owner is a member here?

70B302Cat
September 25th, 2007, 03:30 AM
So if you had a special order paint color on your 70 Eliminator did you get shorted the PS mirror? Did they give you a credit? That would be enough to make me stick with the stock colors... Also, did they not allow you to order dual sport mirrors on your 71-3 when you got a special color?

Eric Petosa's Eliminator's invoice shows a $2.60 credit for Remote Control L/H Mirror substituted for Color Keyed racing mirror.

Don Rush
September 25th, 2007, 12:11 PM
Eric Petosa's Eliminator's invoice shows a $2.60 credit for Remote Control L/H Mirror substituted for Color Keyed racing mirror.

Cool! That is the answer I was looking for. So I guess they just pocketed the $ for the PS mirror he did not get?

70ford
September 25th, 2007, 09:12 PM
I had A.J Foyts special order black Torino 71' Cj 4 speed convertible. Being a special color in 71', the sport mirros were deleted, and the standard drivers side only mirror was used. Of course the car now has sport mirrors on it, as I believe many people had the dealer add them at arrival, or added later. My invoice stated the credit also, this is w/o a doubt the way it was done. Sport mirros do look much nicer then the standard chrome job one side only, and I believe it does not detract from the car having the sport mirrors on it, when it was a deleted option, on a Cougar, or Torino.

badcat427
September 25th, 2007, 11:08 PM
Cool! That is the answer I was looking for. So I guess they just pocketed the $ for the PS mirror he did not get?

Here you go Don. There is no way to tell the color on a car unless you know it. It is not on the Marti, invoice, or the build sheet.

Invoice on the Red car I had.

http://home.alltel.net/bowers2/images/scjinvoice.jpg

Marti on my black car.


http://home.alltel.net/bowers2/images/blackelimmarti.jpg

And the build sheet on the black car. Notice that the color boxes are blank.

http://home.alltel.net/bowers2/images/blackelimbs.jpg

Don Rush
September 25th, 2007, 11:28 PM
Thanks for the post on the docs Frank, now I know the exact wording in which to update my website with. It seems pretty clear to me that if you were to order special paint on your 71 GT or 70 Eliminator (which both came standard with dual sport mirrors) Then they gave you the small difference in value between the two DS mirrors and then pocketed the PS sport mirror. The dealer then got to charge you retail for the same PS mirror plus the charge of painting and labor to install. This is almost as bad as the purposely wrong calibrated speedos in the Hertz G !!!

xr7g428
September 25th, 2007, 11:38 PM
WHAT?
as the purposely wrong calibrated speedos in the Hertz G !!!

Care to elaborate on that... How did they do that?

Don Rush
September 25th, 2007, 11:59 PM
It is true... (I have been told it is true... added 10-26-07) They purposely put the wrong plastic gear on the end of the speedo cable to make it appear that you were going faster than you were. This saved wear and tear on the vehicles and put $ in the pocket of Hertz as you would be paying for miles you never actually put on the odometer! They also held back the G aluminum valve covers because they knew people would swipe them. These tactics were put in place after the Hertz Shelby's were abused so terribly by weekend Hot Rodders.

Here is the explanation I am adding to my used 1970 chrome remote mirror. Someone help me edit this... There has got to be a clearer way of relaying the facts as I see them!

*NOTE* If you have a blank area where your color code is supposed to be typed on your 1970 door data decal, then you have a "special order" paint color. Because sport mirrors came pre-painted from the supplier (and it would be way too difficult for the supplier to paint one mirror at a time) this chrome mirror would have been in put in place of the painted mirror. The retail window sticker would show a credit of $2.60 which is the value difference between the more expensive sport mirror and the chrome remote mirror. On the dealer's factory invoice for 1970 a credit of $2.05 would be given. From all that I can ascertain no credit was given for the deletion of the passenger side sport mirror on special order paint Eliminators. The Eliminator is the only Cougar in 1970 that came standard with two mirrors.

Jim Pinkerton
September 26th, 2007, 07:12 AM
Gosh Don I think your rendition needs no editing -- it is about as clear as it can be.

Mercougar67
September 26th, 2007, 07:19 AM
I had A.J Foyts special order black Torino 71' Cj 4 speed convertible.

Ouch......I just hurt my jaw that hit the ground. I gotta find my glasses....I think I just read "A.J. Foyt's '71 CJ 4 speed CJ Torino Convertible".

I stunned, flabergasted and, otherwise, completely overwhelmed at the thought of this car. PLEASE ELABORATE.

Was there a Holy Grail, orginal signed copy of the Declaration of Independance or any 1909-S VBD Lincoln pennies in mint condition in the trunk when you bought it?

You have to tell us more. It's illegal in most states of mind to make a comment like this "in passing" and not elaborate. You could charge admission to see a car like that.

428cougarguy
September 26th, 2007, 11:43 AM
Black Paint was not a special order color for 1971 - it was a standard color.

My 1971 XR7 project car still has the original paint on it (in very worn out condition) and the original door tag, which is still readable with paint Code A. It does have a black racing mirror on the driver's side.

For 1972 and 1973 black paint was a special order color.

For a 429CJ convertible - then that would be a 1971 only - since the 429CJ engine option was discontinued for 1972.

Larry Whitaker
September 26th, 2007, 01:23 PM
Don,
In 1968, were all Hertz cars equipped with the same sort of incorrect gear on the speedometer/odometer, or was it just the so called "rent a racers"? When was this discovered? Did they get in trouble over it? If anyone got caught doing that today, it would be huge trouble for them.

Smith Brother
September 26th, 2007, 02:24 PM
HOLD THE PHONE......being in the rental car business for over 14 years I can ASSURE you that customers would have picked up on PADDED mileage. I find that VERY HARD to believe, and can only imagine the SCREEMS that would have been heard when someone caught that. I can see a mistake being made in the placement of the gear size, but ON PURPOSE. I just don't believe it. NOTHING PERSONAL, BUT GIVE ME A BREAK. So what sort of speed was the SPEEDO saying when one was actually driving 60?

When we have charged mileage you can be assured that our customers KNEW HOW MANY MILES THEY DROVE, and it didn't come from them looking at the odometer.

Sorry, just don't buy it.

Dale in Indy

Don Rush
September 26th, 2007, 08:19 PM
I love threads like this! I am reading a book right now titled "Infotopia" How many minds produce knowledge. Do you guys realize how accurate sites like this spit out information over time? Because Dale asked for documentation on this ridiculous sounding claim, I am now going back to my sources for more info. If my source chimes in on this thread he will be challenged to produce proof, others will chime in on the tooth counts of their 2.75 ratio Hertz and 2.75 non hertz 1968 390 speedo gears and eventually we will have a definitive, factual answer. In time I believe that every known fact about the 1967-73 Cougar will be known if this site continues unimpeded. Then sites like mine, 428cobrajet.org, mansfieldmustang and the like glean the facts from the fluff here and organize them into a very user friendly site that is accessible to all. Never in the history of mankind has the average Joe so easily been able to be a part of such a powerful, rapidly moving think tank like we have here.

If it comes back that I am wrong (which it just might) I will remember to temper my comments next time to read something like "I have heard rumor from a couple Cougar experts over the years that..." this too is part of the refining process. Fascinating...

Smith Brother
September 26th, 2007, 09:24 PM
Good response Don, as I stated, NOTHING PERSONAL.

Oh how I agree, aren't computers, and forums within same wonderful. I sure think so, and for those that shy away from such, well you don't know what you are missing.

Some folks have suggested that Bob Glidden and A J Foyt's lack of using computers has been a major factor in their winning ways gone BYE BYE.

One thing I have noticed about this site over others I visit is that info for the most part is factual. The report card is still out on this speedo thing, but truthfully I have found the members here KNOW THEIR CAT STUFF.

Dale in Indy

Don Rush
September 26th, 2007, 11:32 PM
No offense taken, if we did not take one another to the mat daily this would not be nearly the resource it is. BTW, the MPC lists a different part number for the 2.75 ratio / C-6 / 390 Hertz G speedo gear than the 2.75 ratio / C-6 / 390 non Hertz G gear. This in itself does not prove an inaccurate speedo but it does cause one to ask "what gives?" and obviously Ford knew about the different gear all along or the MPC would not reflect it. Now if we could document that the rental cars had a slightly different tire size then that may explain it. Maybe they adjusted the speedo to reflect the inevitable long smoky burn offs these big block rentals would be engaging in?

Zogman
September 27th, 2007, 12:28 AM
Actually Don, what about the Radar wheels. Since they are 15" wheels, they may have a larger OD and by the time the problem was found out, maybe it was to late to change the MPC.

Just a thought....

Don Rush
September 27th, 2007, 12:38 AM
I thought the Radar wheels were 14"? The set you bought from Terry were 15" but they were not from a G. I assumed you bought those with the idea of re-rim.

Zogman
September 27th, 2007, 12:44 AM
What, was I taken for a ride??????? Yes I was going to re-rim them but...... how do you know they weren't from a G?

CougarCJ
September 27th, 2007, 01:45 AM
Searched the Mercury MPC.

Definitely going to need some first hand knowledge of what speedometer gears physically came out of original Hertz-G cars. But...

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w115/CougarCJ/Speedogeardetails.jpg

C3DZ-17271-B is a 17 tooth gear. Regular.
C0DD-17271-B is a 18 tooth gear. Police/Taxi/Rental.

Doing the math I get about a 6% positive difference.

According to the Master Parts Catalog it depended upon tire size.
GT cars should have gotten F70x14 tires.
Regular 390 cars were supposed to have E70x14's.

Kind of like Mythbusters.:1poke:

CougarCJ
September 27th, 2007, 02:03 AM
I can't edit right now.

I want to change to 6% slower.

Don Rush
September 27th, 2007, 06:58 AM
What, was I taken for a ride??????? Yes I was going to re-rim them but...... how do you know they weren't from a G?

Because they are 15"

Zogman
September 27th, 2007, 09:14 AM
So did Radar make these same wheels for other applications????

Don Rush
September 27th, 2007, 11:41 AM
yes, it was a wheel sold at your local speed shop. List member Robin Miller recently (couple years ago?) scored a set new in the box for about $400 on ebay. The person liquidating the old stock from the closed speed shop had no clue there was any such car as an xr7G so no G owners were tipped off... The cones that the center caps ride on also are found on other applications.

Don Rush
September 27th, 2007, 11:53 AM
Here you go Don. There is no way to tell the color on a car unless you know it. It is not on the Marti, invoice, or the build sheet.

Invoice on the Red car I had.

http://home.alltel.net/bowers2/images/scjinvoice.jpg

Marti on my black car.


http://home.alltel.net/bowers2/images/blackelimmarti.jpg

And the build sheet on the black car. Notice that the color boxes are blank.

http://home.alltel.net/bowers2/images/blackelimbs.jpg

So I just had a thought... If you ordered a special paint Eliminator that used a stock 1970 Cougar color did you still get the chrome mirror? Is not Eric Petosa's car a factory Cougar color? If so why?

hawkrod
September 27th, 2007, 12:50 PM
Searched the Mercury MPC.

Definitely going to need some first hand knowledge of what speedometer gears physically came out of original Hertz-G cars. But...

snip

C3DZ-17271-B is a 17 tooth gear. Regular.
C0DD-17271-B is a 18 tooth gear. Police/Taxi/Rental.

Doing the math I get about a 6% positive difference.

According to the Master Parts Catalog it depended upon tire size.
GT cars should have gotten F70x14 tires.
Regular 390 cars were supposed to have E70x14's.

Kind of like Mythbusters.:1poke:


Keep in mind that the XR7-G was the first American production car to come standard with radial tires and they had FR70-14's. Hawkrod

Zogman
September 28th, 2007, 12:58 AM
I checked my speedo gear on my Hertz G car that is apart today. 18 teeth gear. Consistent with the MPC.

CATHOUSE
September 28th, 2007, 06:06 PM
So I just had a thought... If you ordered a special paint Eliminator that used a stock 1970 Cougar color did you still get the chrome mirror? Is not Eric Petosa's car a factory Cougar color? If so why?

If I recall correctly Eric's car is a 69 Cougar color. I spent several hours with Eric one year during Ford Carlisle. He showed me all the information that he had collected over the years for the car. He was able to contact the original owner who told him this car was ordered to replace a 69 Cougar that he had recently totalled. He wanted the same paint color on this new car.

Randy Goodling
CCOA #95

Solar Guppy
October 4th, 2007, 10:09 PM
relisted

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RARE-1969-COUGAR-CONVERTIBLE-XR7-R-CODE-428CJ-RAM-AIR_W0QQitemZ120168231135QQihZ002QQcategoryZ6339QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

alsancle
October 5th, 2007, 08:53 AM
Having a non-eminger invoice is really nice but I would still take the time to get the marti report and post it.

Larry Whitaker
October 10th, 2007, 12:15 AM
It looks like these 428 cars aren't selling lately. The 70 SCJ did, but a lot haven't. I wonder why?

xr7g428
October 10th, 2007, 10:49 AM
Rust and parts prices.

Bookdw
October 10th, 2007, 01:44 PM
I too did not know this. Does anyone else here have an unmolested 69/70 xr7 with special paint code that has the non xr7 chrome mirror? Have you ever seen documentation to support this. It sounds reasonable, I fully buy it, just wondering.


I have a 69 XR7 with a special paint code WT9810 Metallic Purple, they put it on 216 cats that year. The car has the racing mirror, but i'm the 4th owner that I know of so I can't verify it as origional. The Marti report does not state what type mirror came on the car.

Don Rush
October 10th, 2007, 02:01 PM
Go back to Marti and order the factory invoice (cool orig doc.). It will show.